Each month, we bring together community members and hand the microphone over to them to lead a segment we call Group Chat. And this week, Milwaukee’s Pride Fest kicks off. While the fest has come a long way to include all of Milwaukee’s queer community, some say the organization still has progress to make.
This month’s Group Chat listens in to three Black organizers on their critiques of the fest and the path forward for a more inclusive space moving forward.
This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
Ritchie Martin: I am Richie T. Martin, executive director of the Milwaukee LGBT Community Center.
Chad Carroll: I am the legendary Chad Carroll. I'm also a community health worker as well as a community outreach coordinator.
Ricardo Wynn: And my name is Ricardo Wynn. I am a legend in Milwaukee's ballroom scene. I am a community advocate and I'm also the project director for a community initiative called Empower and Community Action Initiative.
I wanted to really bring us together because one, Ritchie, I started in this field, public health, because of you and your advocacy. And two, Chad, when I was in that role, you really helped me advance with my outreach efforts.
So my first question with [Milwaukee] Pride coming up, what did you wish it was or did better?
Carroll: I actually wish that it was even more inclusive than what it is. I don't want to say [what it’s] portraying to be or what it's laying out to be, [but] I would love to see a POC stage. Something just as big and just as promoted as the Techno stage that highlights all the things that are cultural, that represents us and the LGBT community.
Martin: I would have to agree. You know, it's been around for many, many, many, many, many years. We've seen Pride Fest evolve to what it is today. I think there is more need to focus on creating safe, inclusive spaces for Black people and people of color. And that really requires a multifaceted approach. It requires all of us, including Pride Fest, to be part of this conversation where we're able to focus on fostering open communication.
Representation that starts at the board. What is the board chemistry? What is the board makeup? Implementing inclusive policies and practices. And most of all, we have to get to a place where we are addressing systematic racial disparities. We have to address the microaggressions. And we have to be open and prepared and OK with having those hard conversations.
Wynn: I had reached out to Wes [Shaver, Milwaukee Pride president] and him and I went to dinner, and I had mentioned to him my hopes for Pride and referenced QPOC populations. And I also made it very transparent that I wanted to learn from him on what it meant and looked like to have a festival on Summerfest grounds that was inclusive of the LGBTQ community.
And while he was open, and we have been in communication, I have learned some things from him along the way. What I recognize is there's not only healing that has to be done in the QPOC community, but that in the past [Wes] had bad experiences with leaders, and not of color, but just like, "Here’s an opportunity, are you going to do it with fidelity?" And they're dropping the ball.
We have to be transparent and recognize that when there's harm done, we receive more insolation. And then that adds on top of the fact of the historical context. I often say that LGBTQ is not always Black. As a Black man, I'm Black first. My sexuality isn't even third or fourth on my list, actually, because when I am living in my sexuality, that's behind my closed door. How I show up is a gender expression that doesn't equal my sexuality, but who I choose to love and how I love is often done behind closed doors in my own home. But when I'm showing up in spaces and I'm advocating and this work is being done, I'm still a Black man first. And that alone comes with so many intersections and there's so many facets about who I am. And that translates to other leaders, too. I mean, even people of color.
Martin: I think it's important to also highlight the work. You mentioned having a conversation last year with Wes. We did some conversations collectively as leaders, bringing Wes as the president of PrideFest to the table and sharing in some of what we felt were injustices.
Now the question becomes, what happens after that conversation? A lot of times we have these important conversations and there is no follow-up work from either side. I think and I believe that we have committed, Wes has committed, PrideFest in general has committed, all of us collectively have committed to doing this work. The question is, when do we get to do that work?
And I think we've been thrown off our game, especially behind the shift that we've had to deal with, with this political landscape that's going on and the chaos around us. At some point, we have to get to a place where we're prioritizing these conversations. And I look forward to prioritizing those conversations.
Wynn: To that point, what do you feel like are some struggles and lessons learned organizing as a QPOC leader in Milwaukee?
Carroll: For me, one of the main struggles is support, especially financial support. There were times we were packing out bars and our houses, or my house, but when we couldn't get a space [for these events]. There were times I was putting my furniture in the backyard and covering it, having the house [open] so there would be enough room, with three grills on the front line.
Wynn: ...[And] I would be the one pulling up with my HIV tests and giving out condoms.
Carroll: …Absolutely. At one point, they were doing these cards [to track our guests]. When people would come in through the door, they would pay their fee to get in, and they'd sign a card. I would tear it off and give them the agency's information, and then I'll report back with the agency. So they were collecting all of this data and in return, they would offer a $50 Pick ’n Save card to help out with the next event. And then as we progressed and got into a bigger space, they started coming up with the $250 [card], and we thought we were doing something there.
I got to a point where I was like, "I need y'all to actually show up so y'all can see what we're doing." Just be present and maybe that'll change your perspective of what we need from you. I see a lot of times, other people or other leaders are getting the support that I need. They were getting the big money and ten people would be showing up to their event.
Wynn: Talk about it!
Carroll: And I was getting the $250 gift card, oh be grateful, and I had 400-500 people [showing up]. Support is everything to me. If they show up for me I'm definitely going to show up for you.
Wynn: Along the way there have been organizations that have supported us. And we've had to beg for the opportunity because when we finally got the opportunity, then we became a focal point. But at what cost? Like, people don't understand there's a cost to pay for visibility.
Martin: Kelsey Blackwell wrote Why People of Color Need Spaces Without White People, and in that article, she says people of color need their own spaces, Black people need their own spaces. Places in which we can gather and be free from the mainstream stereotypes and marginalization that premeditate every other societal space we occupy.
So when you talk about support, when you talk about what support looks like and doing this work, a lot of times when we create spaces, you have main[stream] organizations that have the power, that have the money that we are trying to get some of, but they want to micromanage how we get to work.
I need people in my corner. The center needs people in its corner. We need people, as we collectively do this work, to break down the systematic barriers and walls that we have been oppressed [by] and we've been conditioned [by]. And let me make it very clear. We didn't choose to take on this oppression.
And when you have those conversations, and when you talk about people like Kelsey Blackwell, who understands that valuing and protecting spaces for people of color is not just a kind thing that white people can do to help us feel better. Supporting these spaces is crucial to the resistance of oppression that has existed not just for decades, but for centuries.
Wynn: So what are you all hopeful for the future in Milwaukee, for QPOC individuals?
Carroll: I'll speak to the leaders, I would love to see more collaboration, support between the leaders, between the mobilizes. Right now, I feel like we're in a space where everybody feels like they're trying to one up me. Let me do this. Let me do that. Instead of working together and making a or having a bigger outcome. Everybody's trying to outdo everybody and nobody's working together for a bigger outcome. So that's what I would like to see. More collaboration, less crabs in a barrel.
Martin: I think where we are now is setting the tone for what the future of Black gay spaces look like in the city of Milwaukee. I think we have to prepare to have more bolder conversations, more healthy, bolder conversations. And so one, I'm hopeful that one day we'll end up in a land of healing where we will not be oppressed, we will not be ostracized, we will be valued at tables that matter.
Wynn: With that being said, you know, one of the things that I had hoped for was to re-envision Black Pride in Milwaukee. And that started pre-COVID under the leadership of Jeff Roman and Ritchie Martin, while we were organizing, but then COVID happened and then it fell off. Then they came to me like, “Oh, you gotta make this happen.” I'm like, “Girl, I ain't got no time for this!”
But then I came across the Center for Black Equity out of D.C. that houses all of the Black Prides globally. I went to a meeting for a week to learn and I said, “OK, I can make this happen.” My network supported us in doing this, and we had a three-day event [last year], and we named it Blacktoberfest because, one, I can't think of any Pride events during the fall and winter. Seasonal depression is real, and depression is real. And so we need things where we can keep people motivated throughout the year.
So Blacktoberfest was created to be a three-day celebration centered around economic well-being, wellness, community engagement and celebration. And so last year was a huge success. We got a proclamation based on not it being Pride, but based on what the leaders put into it. And that was a blessing because that puts us in history.
That's the other thing. We don't have a lot of documented Black history, Black gay history. And so that's important because whether Blacktober never happens again, no one can say it didn't happen. And so that has been my hope, for Milwaukee as our QPOC community.
And I know that there is work that [still] needs to be done. I was just thinking the other day, I need to meet with my trans brothers and sisters and see how we could support each other. But I want to go on record to say that we can't do it all, and we shouldn't have to. But you do the best you can with what you have and with fidelity. And you ensure that you don't cause harm, but that you evoke thought and inspire people to be the best version of themselves each and every day.
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