The Midwest is considered a “climate haven,” according to some climate scientists and academics.
They say the region is positioned to avoid the worst effects of natural disasters caused by climate change, and they believe the Midwest has the infrastructure to support a larger population.
That could result in “climate migration” — people moving here from the coasts and other areas where the climate is less stable.
WUWM’s Race & Ethnicity Reporter, Teran Powell, spoke with Fred Schnook, executive director of the environmental nonprofit Wisconsin Clean Cities. Schnook talks about how the Midwest got the “climate haven” label.
In Milwaukee, officials are preparing for the possibility of people migrating here. The city’s Climate & Equity Plan gives the topic some consideration.
Powell also spoke with Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson for some insight.
These interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Teran Powell: What does climate migration mean and what does it have to do with the Midwest?
Fred Schnook: It means is that particularly around the coasts, people are really getting disrupted by climate change. It's far more evident in those coastal states, the impacts of climate change than it is here in the Midwest. Those people are looking to move. They're looking for more stable climates, and the Midwest has a far more stable climate. One, because it's in the middle of the continent. Two, because the Great Lakes are a mitigating force, which stabilizes the climate overall in this part of the country.
Finally, there was a paper written in, I think, 2019 by a professor who said that Duluth was a climate haven, and a lot of people have grabbed onto that paper and are realizing that the Midwest is a place that can provide them with more stable opportunities for kind of long-term living than those coastal states.
You mentioned a professor who highlighted Duluth as the best place to be if you're looking to leave areas where climate change is wreaking havoc. Is there data available now that shows that climate migration is actually happening there?
Schnook: Particularly from the West Coast, from California, from Oregon, and moving to the Duluth area, there's been scientific studies based on, papers that have been written and then are tested. So yes.
So it could be happening in Wisconsin already, we just don't have the data. So we can't really say what the impact is right now?
Schnook: Correct.
Let's put Milwaukee in the forefront for a second. What do you think is the best approach, in your opinion, to how Milwaukee could prepare for this? Who needs to be at the table, included in the conversation when we talk about, you know, not widening already existing inequities? Who needs to be at the decision-making table, the conversation table, so that everyone can benefit when climate migration impacts us?
Schnook: It impacts us in so many different ways, and as you mentioned, ensuring that marginalized groups have a place at the table is critical. It's really, really critical because it tends to impact them more, right? So it's really important that we deal with the socioeconomic issues that are impacting the community. So, the areas most prone to flooding, right? The areas most prone to other impacts of climate change are going to impact marginalized communities first.
I think in most areas where we've seen it start before is really with planning departments that understand climate change and are able to pull communities together to deal with those issues. It shouldn't be separate from other planning that takes place in the community.
So, most big cities, particularly like Milwaukee, go through comprehensive planning on a regular basis. Comprehensive planning looks at planning through nine different elements in the community. I would argue and hope that what Milwaukee does in the future is either a climate overlay of those nine elements or a 10th element of climate change and climate migration — to discuss: How does that impact transportation? How does climate change impact housing? How does climate change impact development and land use? How does that impact the relationship between the city of Milwaukee and the surrounding suburbs? So, to look at all of those elements through a climate change lens, to me, is really important.
What do you know about climate migration?
Mayor Johnson: Out West, things are on fire, and we saw that just a couple of months ago with the terrible, terrible fires that raged in Los Angeles. In the South, it's boiling — I mean, to the point where, in the past when I was a kid growing up, folks wanted to go down to Florida for summer vacation. I don't think many folks wanna go to Florida for summer vacation these days. And then, you know, out East there are significant floods — I mean, you're on the path of the hurricanes, right?
We saw Superstorm Sandy a number of years ago in New York and New Jersey and other places. We are pretty well isolated from those larger-scale natural disasters in the Midwest and, of course, here in Milwaukee. And so I think as people seek to leave those climate disasters that are happening with much more intensity and strength every single year, they will migrate to other parts of the country — places that are more moderate, places that are more temperate — and Milwaukee is on that list.
Looking at the Climate and Equity Plan, I did see mention of climate migration, and with your goal of growing the population — this particularly was talking about the need for more housing. So talk a little bit about that. Like, how soon could we see houses being built? I just wonder, where will these houses be? Who are the stakeholders, committees, you know, talking about this?
Johnson: Well, I think we need to be prepared for climate migration. I also think that we need to do a better job of making sure that the people who presently live in Milwaukee have access to safe, affordable housing in the city as it is. Even if you take, you know, climate migration off the table, there's a need to have, you know, some 30,000 additional units for African American, for Latino homeowners in the city of Milwaukee — folks who want to break out into other, you know, housing choices, housing units.
That's why I'm very, very happy, very, very proud that the City Plan Commission, just this Monday, approved my housing policy — the housing element, a larger part of the Growing Milwaukee initiative — to make sure that there's more availability to build the different types of housing choices that we need in Milwaukee so that we can also lower the cost, right? So we're working to make sure that it's easier to develop in Milwaukee so that folks who live here have the opportunity, but then also making sure that we have the space for the people who I believe will come here.
I've already met people who have moved here because of climate disasters where they originally hailed from in the United States.
Consider the conditions that already exist in Milwaukee — like racial disparities and such. We know that the impacts of climate change will exacerbate those disparities that already exist. With climate migration here becoming our reality, how do you see climate migration faring for Milwaukee? Do you think it's a good thing? A bad thing? Both?
Johnson: I think it could be a good thing. Look, this is something that's going to happen. People will leave when there's turmoil — whether it's economic, political, violence-related or climate-related — from where they are to get to a better space. Milwaukee presents that better space, and so I think people ultimately will come. It's our responsibility to make sure we're setting the city on a responsible path, to make sure that the folks who stay here are able to stay here, right? That's why it's important for us to build more affordable housing.
That's why it's important for us to make sure we have more developments in the city that, you know, promote density and make space for the future people who will come here as well. And those are the things that we're doing in Milwaukee.
You just touched on, though, some of the race-based challenges that have been present here — and not just here, but in other places as well. That's exactly why in our Climate and Equity Plan it specifically says that we want to work to make sure that people who have been shut out of opportunities — typically people of color, African Americans, Latinos, Asians — have the opportunity to work in jobs in the green sector.
So we're working to make sure that we're able to maintain the people who are here, working to make sure we bring on new spaces for the folks who come here, but then also working to maintain an opportunity for people who live in Milwaukee, who have always called Milwaukee home, to continue to call Milwaukee home. And that's very important to me.
