It’s human nature to be a little vain and concerned about how we look - after all, presentation is important. But sometimes aspects of our appearance can represent something more than just what’s skin-deep. This episode was hosted by Kim Shine & Joel Dresang, edited by Sam Woods and features four stories focused on the theme of “Looks” from Zhane Gowie, Dan Lococo, Lisa Williams and Monica Thomas.
Episode transcript below from Ex Fabula's Real Storie MKE series.
Joel Dresang: Welcome to Real Stories MKE, brought to you as part of Ex Fabula’s mission to connect Milwaukee through real stories. I am Joel Dresang.
Kim Shine: And I'm Kim Shine. Ex Fabula believes that everyone has personal stories worth sharing, and they run storytelling workshops where community members can explore and develop their storytelling skills and their confidence. Ex Fabula hosts StorySlams where storytelling is, of course, shared on stage. And in this episode of Real Stories MKE we are bringing you four of those compelling stories.
Joel Dresang: Four stories, Kim, to start season six, which, yeah, which is presented by Christine Symchych and Jim McNulty. And our theme for episode number one of season six is “Looks”. Ooh!
Kim Shine: Yeah. How we appear to others or how we think we appear can have a powerful influence on how we look upon ourselves. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, because sometimes we shouldn't care so much how we look to other people.
Joel Dresang: And as we learn, looks can be deceiving. So, let's get to our first story. It's about looks, and it's from Zhane Gowie. Zhane spoke at an event in April 2024 called AfterDark: For the Culture. She shared her story of how she learned to connect with herself and how others connected with her through her hair. Here's Zhane.
Zhane Gowie: Hi everybody! Okay, so this is my first story. I'm a little nervous. I'm here with me. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about, like, my experience as a Black woman in Milwaukee, but also, like, growing up, how I found confidence through my hair. Like, it was a very weird journey for me. And I felt like I was ugly as hell all the way up until, like, I was natural and like, embracing myself more, but also too, like, tapping into my internal beauty instead of being self-focused on the external.
Because regardless of how pretty you are on the outside, if the inside is stank, it does nobody any good. So, for me personally - because I went through a lot of different stages, like I shaved my hair completely off and my dad thought like instantly like, “oh, you're a dyke” And I was like, “no”, I just - it was broken off and there was no point in holding on to it.
So, it had to go, but also too - like then when it grew back, me like reestablishing my confidence again. Because that was something that was new for me, but like learning to accept who I was without all of the extras because all my life, like, I wore wigs and weaves, and it was easy to hide under that.
And so, I wanted to challenge myself a bit more by exploring what grew out of my scalp. And so, for me, I think like my hair journey.
When I began to, like, lock my hair and really, truly embrace...
Me and who I...
Was is really like when I felt the most comfortable, but also too, like, learning like that other people connect with me through my hair was also something that I had to learn as well. Because before I used to be like, “oh my gosh, why are these random people, like, coming up to me?” Like, I didn't know how to handle it.
And so today I'm blessed, I feel - because that's something that taught me a lot about, like, who I am, but also too like being comfortable with me and myself. But in hindsight, I'm actually going to be starting a beauty business really soon. (Audience Cheers) Just because I felt like there is a lack of space for people of color, but products that actually work for our hair, instead of just pushing products on us just to push it, and for a lot of people that don't understand, like hair textures and how to take care of your hair and how important black hair care is.
I still didn't see that there was a space for that. So, typically when there aren't spaces for you, what do you do? You create it. And so yeah, I just want to share a little bit more about that. And yeah, I'm Zhane and that's all I have for tonight, guys!
Joel Dresang: That was Zhane Gowie, from an AfterDark: For the Culture event, which showcases storytellers of color. It's a collaboration between Ex Fabula and HYFIN, a Radio Milwaukee station.
Kim Shine: Well, our second story about looks comes from Dan Lococo, who gives the perspective of someone whose looks changed over the years as did his eyesight, as did how he wanted to be seen. Here's Dan.
Dan Lococo: Gender stuff can sometimes be hard when you don't see, you know? And, when I was in college, I started getting my haircut at Sal’s on Oakland Avenue, and at the time I could see well enough. And I also kept my hair kind of long. But as I got closer to graduation, Sal just started cutting my hair a little bit shorter.
Oh, you know, over the years, up to the collars. And, you know, I never questioned Sal at all. I just kind of looked at it as, you know, transitioned into, you know, into adulting, you know, and after I graduated, I adopted the costume of a guy with a finance degree, you know, dress shirts and ties and sport jackets, stuff like that, you know, and, but years later, I got a job at Marquette University, and I started getting my haircut.
You know, across the hall for me was Bob's barber shop. And Bob's daughter, Crystal cut my hair, kind of just like Sal did, only a little bit longer. But, you know, I still got my haircut every four weeks. Just like the guy who, you know, with the finance degree still had that, you
know, the costume at Marquette was business casual and, so, you know, the, the dress shirts and the ties and jackets kind of migrated to the back of my of my, my closet, you know, and as time went on, I realized one day, I have no idea how men wear their hair, you know, as my vision declined, the phrase, “let me see that…”
became to me “let me touch that”. Yeah, but, you know, wandering around feeling guys heads...
Didn't really seem efficient and also, you know, kind of creepy. You know, the big thing was - I didn't want to look like the blind guy with a haircut from another decade. So, you know, I went to Crystal, and I said, “you know, just cut my hair the way you think it should look”. And so, I ended up with a buzzcut for about the next ten years.
And, you know, I, I realized later that I had given Crystal the same authority to decide how I should look, that I had given Sal all those years back. And then in 2020, I joined a group of people at the intersection of queer and disability, and I had been traveling those roads for some time, and it was fun to be at that intersection.
I enjoyed it. We met in person to person twice... before... pandemic. Fortunately, we have met almost every week since then, which is very cool. But as the pandemic went on and so many things changed, I realized I could change too. I still had no idea how people wear their hair, you know? But my hair had been grown for the past year, and I decided, you know, the way I wear my hair...
This could be an opportunity for me to start living into the nonbinary person that I felt for years. And so, I took advantage of that opportunity. And, you know, I hadn't seen Crystal in a long time, and she probably would have been supportive of me. But I thought, you know, I'm going to come out, come out. So, I thought, support the community I'm a part of.
And I went to the LGBT Chamber of Commerce, and I found myself queer hair styling. And now Mandy and I have conversations on a regular basis - how I want to look in the world. I want my hair. And it's like, you know what? I'm an adult now. I get to choose this kind of stuff. So. So, you can call me an adult.
Just don't call me a grown up. That's - that's a bridge too far. Thank you.
Kim Shine: That was Dan Lococo, who told his story at an April 2024 Ex Fabula slam with the theme of “Adulting”.
Joel Dresang: Hey, Kim. Yeah, how about some ultra shorts?
Kim Shine: You know, this is the first episode of the season, but I've been waiting for you to say that for so long.
Joel Dresang: Oh, yeah. So. All right. A whole season you've been waiting for. Yeah. So, UltraShorts are tiny little stories that people in our audiences will write on a slip of paper handed to the emcee and the stories relate to the theme, and we get more voices into our events that way.
Kim Shine: Yeah, I found one.
Joel Dresang: Okay, let's hear it.
Kim Shine: This one is from Michelle. “Growing up, my aunt would buy me a swimsuit every year for Christmas and then have me do a fashion show. It was cute when I was little, but by my early teens it became the awkward swimsuit fashion show for the family.”
Joel Dresang: Yeah, some traditions don’t stand the test of time. Nah... Here's an UltraShort from Kate. “I worked as a figure model. That's a nude figure model. I hated freshman classes at our school. Freshmen were easily dismayed. They'd often tear up their sketches. It's disturbing to watch yourself torn up half a dozen times an hour. So, I would fake it...”
“I would complement the worst artists on my breaks. If they were male. They never tore up the drawing. Instead, they gave it to me. Later, I tore it up.”
Our next “Looks” story comes from Lisa Williams. She shared this story at another AfterDark: For the Culture event in June 2024. Here's Lisa.
Lisa Williams: Yes,I've been bit by the stage bug again.
Ex Fabula is where I started...
Telling stories; a long time ago.
Tonight is for the culture.
Colourism has always been a part of my story.
Sits on my shoulders like mud.
It sits on my shoulders like a boulder. Can't come in here if you’re darker than a paper bag.
If you're Black. Get back. If you're brown, you can stick around. But if you're near white, you alright. That's what my life was like growing up Black in the south, Black in the north, Black wherever...I went to... Black all around town.
Black in and out. But Black was never a beautiful word to me. Black was an ugly word to me that made me feel ugly. But I changed all that. Yeah, I changed all that. This is how I changed it. Now I'm an educated Black woman. (Crowd cheers) With three degrees.
Been a manager, been a supervisor, been a... However you can name it, you know, but it's just so good to feel my blackness and be proud of my blackness. And be proud of where I came from. And still where I'm going. I no longer walk with my head held down. I walk with my head held high. And I'm proud of that always.
I'll always be proud of my blackness.
Now. Thank you.
Joel Dresang: That was Lisa Williams from June 2024.
Kim Shine: Our final story comes from Monica Thomas, and Monica shares her story about an emotional and enlightening encounter with how she used to look. Here's Monica.
Monica Thomas: Thank you, but no thank you. Here we go. Good evening.
Oh. Hi, mom!
So, eight years ago, I moved back into my childhood home. And I took a lot of stuff with me. I was getting divorced. It was going to be a temporary move, but it ended up being more long term. And I tend to accumulate things. I shop at thrift stores and rummage sales, and so that is pretty easy to do.
But another thing I realized is when you - is that you hold on to things. I tend to hold on to things, because I'm living now in a place that has so many memories. So, I have too much stuff, and I knew I needed to let go. But I didn't know where to start, so I googled it.
It was around springtime, so spring cleaning - and I came across a group where the mission is to get rid of one bag of stuff every day for 40 days during lent. And I'm not Catholic or anything, but this kind of worked. So, I did a really good initial purge, but like the clutter is never ending. I had a long way to go.
And so, since then, every now and then when I have the time or I just can't stand it anymore, I'll take something on. It's sort of like zone cleaning. I'll pick something and make it better. And that's what I did, around Christmas time, I decided to pull everything out of my bedroom closet. I don't have a big closet.
I'm back in my bedroom from when I was a kid, and it's not a walk-in closet or anything. It's about six feet across, and it was jam packed. Let me tell you, collecting typewriters is a really easy way to run out of storage space.
So...
I also have a lot of clothes and, you know, everything is everywhere. One of the things that always bothered me was that I couldn't get to my dresses. I don't wear those in my usual rotation, but on a nice sunny day or, you know, just for a special occasion. I really like dressing up like I play Human Barbie until I get the right outfit and I have a lot of fun.
It makes me feel pretty and and happy. So, my dresses were in a laundry basket at the bottom of the closet. I think I folded them at one time, but it was just all a jumble. And even if I wanted to wear a dress, I couldn't because the cat gets in there. Everything was covered in black hair.
I mean, white hair, like, even more than usual. So, I had to wash all my dresses. And now when I say I gutted the closet, what I didn't do was take down all the clothes that I had. The shelf that runs the length of it. I had never done anything with those clothes pretty much since I moved in.
Those clothes had been on that shelf. I didn't fit those clothes. Those clothes were skinny clothes. And I'm not skinny. But one time I was. So, I had to buy new pants. And I held on to them because getting rid of clothes is like throwing away money. So, I had probably a dozen or so pairs of pants that I was never going to wear again.
I didn't think I was particularly- attached to them. They weren't in fashion or anything. But I held on, so it made sense. If I was going to fold these dresses that I would clear off the shelf and put the dresses up there shouldn't have been a big problem, right? I took down the pants and I'm sitting on my bed and, you know, putting them in a bag because I'm going to give them to a homeless shelter, you know, I'm done with them, at least I think I am.
And I think I'm ready to let go. But as I'm putting these clothes into the bag, I get really choked up. And I don't know why. I mean, it really surprises me. And then I get that whimpering that that happens like, it’s this Mary Tyler Moore thing that means, like, I'm about to just, you know, flood with tears like there's.
There's no crying like that crying. It's when you have to let something out. Like there's no stopping it. You just have to go with it. It reminded me of when I was younger, when I would close the bedroom door as a lonely teenager, as a little kid, and my feelings got hurt. It was that kind of cry, like I just had to let go and I didn't know any other way.
So, I cried. I still kept begging up the clothes, but I’m bawling... putting away jeans. But what do I do then? Once I start to feel bad, it's like a downward spiral. And there's this stuff that I've held on to that I try really hard to keep down. But when I start feeling a little bad, that stuff starts to bubble back up and I'm telling myself, “Well, of course you're crying...”
‘You don't deserve to be happy. Look at this mess and look at you. You're crying because...”
“You’re giving up pants that you might have fit into. You're giving up on yourself. You're never going to be thin, and you're never going to be happy. You've just given up.”
So that all had to happen, I guess. See, I had been overweight for most of my life, and I'd been teased and humiliated and I knew loneliness and I'd felt heartbreak.
But I never thought the answer to that was really to lose weight. Like, you know how people say, “I've tried every diet out there and nothing's ever worked for me”. Bullshit! I haven’t tried anything.
I really didn't care because to me, I thought it was more important to work on those self-esteem issues, to work on just being a better person, to find things that made me happy. Now the message around me was quite different because at least for me, I feel like as long as I'm fat, the world around me is telling me that I shouldn't be and that I should want to change every single New Year's.
Feel like I have to make a resolution saying, this is my year, I'm going to lose weight, and I'm tempted to join a gym and all this other thing or all these other things, but I never really wanted to do that.
I never really tried. But let me tell you about the time that I did lose weight. I lost about 50 pounds in my mid 30s when my life was falling apart. Like entirely like everything. I was getting divorced. My house was in foreclosure. I had to move back in with my parents. I had to change jobs, figure out how to go back to school.
Everything was an upheaval and there was so much going on. I was so stressed that I couldn't slow down. I didn't have time to eat, and I didn't have the will to eat because I barely felt alive. So, I lost weight. I don't think anyone saw how hurt I was inside, but I know that people noticed how thin I was getting outside because I still got compliments.
I don't think that was right. So...
I'm a pretty determined person, and I think if I really wanted to lose weight, I would. If I did, fitting back into the high waisted jeans and Capri length cargo pants that I bought second hand in 2009...
Was not going to be part of the incentive. So those clothes could go. But why was I so upset? I still didn't know, and I wanted to share my feelings. So, I went on the internet. I went back to my support group for decluttering, and I said what had happened. And I got a lot of really supportive and understanding responses.
And, you know, I was really overwhelmed. But I also got a couple responses where people had said, you know, try keto. Yeah, just don't eat the starch. I got diet advice. I think I kind of expected that. But then something really cool happened. Other people came to my defense and were shooting that down, saying “she said she didn't want to lose weight.”
“Keep your advice to yourself”. I got one response that really resonated, and it's a quote from one of my favorite authors, Anne Lamott. She says, “I wear forgiving pants. The world is hard enough as it is without letting your pants have an opinion on how you're doing”.
So. When this new year came around. I approached it in my new spirit of honesty and forgiveness. I needed to forgive people that had maybe hurt my feelings. Sure. Whether or not it was intentional. But more than that, more importantly. I saw that I needed to forgive myself because time and time again, I was my biggest bully.
So, when it came to - New Year's, I said one of the most liberating things this new year, this year, I resolve to not try to lose weight. I can let go of the guilt and the suffering and the negativity. There isn't any room for that in my closet. Thank you.
Kim Shine: That was Monica Thomas, and she shared that story at a 2018 Ex Fabula Slam with the theme of “Break Free”. And I know we haven't had any updates until now.
Joel Dresang: Yeah, I like the updates!
Kim Shine: Yeah. So, we have a teller update, and Monica said that it was very touching to revisit that experience, and she was especially moved by how she shouted out “hi mom!” As this was the only storytelling event that her mom actually attended. And so it means a lot. Yeah, for her to have her there. Her mom, since passed away, but she still lives in the house.
Kim Shine: She moved in to take care of her and now the house is in her name. So, in the past few years, she's continued to make a mission of clearing out the material things that she no longer needs. She’ll pass them along to friends or whoever can use them. She’ll donate them. And overall, Monica strives to be a healthier person.
Joel Dresang: Great, nice update.
Kim Shine: I agree with that.
Joel Dresang: Well Kim, it looks as if that's all the time we have for this episode of Real Stories MKE. That was great. Thank you for catching them. But you know, this is only the first show of season six. We have plenty more storytelling to share. Ex Fabula has been at this since 2009, and there are more audio and video stories available at the website exfabula.org.
Kim Shine: That's right, the website has all the upcoming storytelling workshops and stories slams, so you guys should check it out. And maybe Joel and I will see you at an event and hear one of your stories. That would be pretty awesome. You can also connect with Ex Fabula on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok and stay subscribed to Real Stories MKE wherever you get your podcasts.
Joel Dresang: Yes, and thanks to everyone who makes this program possible, including Ex Fabula staff, the storytellers Christine Symchych and Jim McNulty. Ex Fabula funders including the Herzfeld Foundation and the Wispact Foundation, our producer, Jordan Terry and as always, our audio engineer, Sam Woods.
Kim Shine: Yeah, we have a lot of people to thank this season. That's great. Yeah, we love that you guys love us. All right. For Real Stories MKE, I'm Kim Shine.
Joel Dresang: And I'm Joel Dresang. Remember, everyone has stories worth telling. Think of sharing yours.
