Respect – it’s something we owe to ourselves and others. People tend to know when it’s absent and when it’s present. This episode was hosted by Kim Shine & Joel Dresang, edited by Sam Wood and features four respectful stories from Hope Liu, Marshall Hemphill, Susannah Bartlow and Andie Anderson.
Episode transcript below from Ex Fabula's Real Storie MKE series.
Joel Dresang: Welcome to Real Stories MKE, presented as part of Ex Fabula’s mission to connect Milwaukee through real stories. I’m Joel Dresang.
Kim Shine:And I am Kim Shine. Ex Fabula believes that everyone has personal stories worth sharing. Ex Fabula nurtures storytelling through workshops, where community members can build skills and confidence. And Ex Fabula hosts StorySlams, where people share their true stories on stage. Today, we’re bringing you four of those amazing stories
Joel Dresang: Yes! This season of Real Stories MKE is presented by Christine Symchych & Jim McNulty, and the theme for this episode, Kim, is respect.
Kim Shine: Let's cue Aretha Franklin. *Clip from Aretha Franklin’s song, Respect plays*
Joel Dresang: Respect is a fundamental human right. It's something we need to allow for ourselves and to show to one another. It's meeting people where they are and giving them the benefit of the doubt. A lot of times, we hear about respect only when it is lacking and people struggle with that, but then, when they share their stories, we can learn.
Our first story of respect comes from Hope Liu at the 2019 Ex Fabula Story Slam with the theme “Untold Stories of Resistance”. Hope shared how other people's assumptions about who she is resulted in how she was treated. Here's Hope.
Hope Liu: It turns out I've been suffering from an identity crisis like my whole life, but I never really knew it until now. See, in 1994, I had a achieved what my parents had been dreaming for me since before I was born, which was to go to college, finish in four years, and then continue on to graduate school. I had been accepted to the University of Notre Dame's world-famous vector biology lab.
Not only that, but they were going to pay me to do it. I got a full ride tuition waiver and graduate assistantship, so —I know. Thank you. Yes. —So I packed up my stuff and I went to Notre Dame. And I have to say, it was a little overwhelming. They have that big gold dome and touchdown Jesus.
And I knew I wasn't in Charleston, West Virginia anymore where I had grown up. See, in Charleston, we have a gold dome, but that's because it's the state capital. So anyway, I was getting ready to go to gen bio teaching assistance orientation, and I knew I looked the part because the part that you played at graduate school was jeans, t shirt, low maintenance hair, no makeup, hiking boots and tennis shoes, which was solidly great for me.
So, we go into the lab orientation session, and we're waiting for the coordinator to show up, and she walks into the room and we're like, yay, we're going to get started. And she looks very comfortable, kind of like a mom, you know, kind of soft looking, could see her bustling around her house on the weekends, and she tells us what we're going to do and how we're going to do it.
But then she gets to the important thing, which is the schedule. We just really want to know, like, when do we have to do this teaching thing? So, she starts handing out the schedule and I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is kind of strange. Everyone else got to teach three sections and I only got to teach two sections.
I started to panic because I could hear my dad's voice in my head going, what did you fail to do? Why didn't you work harder to prevent this from happening? See, in my house, we didn't have problems that couldn't be solved if you just worked a little harder. Which is probably why growing up in the 80s, I killed a can of Aqua Net almost every day, trying to get this hair to do that big thing.
Curling iron, hair teasers. But my hair, like, my dad, didn't get the memo that some things couldn't be solved by hard work. Back to Notre Dame. I'm panicking. I know I'm going to have to talk to this lady. So, I go up to her after everything is done and I'm like, I'm really sorry.
I just couldn't help but notice everyone else got three sections to teach and I only got two. And I'm concerned that my tuition isn't going to be paid, or something is going to go wrong. And she looked up over her shoulder at me and she goes, “Oh, you’re Hope, right? And I'm like, “Yeah, I'm Hope!” She just goes down the roster.
Looks across. She goes “Oh, right. See, I saw your middle name. I just assumed you couldn't speak English.” And I was like, wait, what? My middle name is Chinese. It's Quo-Fee, which makes perfect sense because., hey, my dad's Chinese and my first name is Hope, which also makes perfect sense because I grew up in Charleston, West Virginia, and my mom hated the name Helen, so I was a little puzzled by this, but she went on to explain in case I didn't get it.
See, we get a lot of Chinese graduate students coming over and they adopt an English name but keep their Chinese name. So, when I saw your name, I just assumed. But it turns out you speak English better than me. “Then I,” I thought.
So, you know, she just says “Don't worry about it. Just teach the two sections. Next semester, you'll teach the three sections. We'll just call it a wash and you'll be done.” And I'm like, okay, I guess so. So, I'm walking back to the lab with my friend, and she goes, wow, you're so lucky. And I thought, I don't feel lucky.
I feel like I just failed. See, I had wanted her to check the box that said, ‘Normal graduate student assigned three sections.’
And she checked the box ‘Chinese’. But you know what? She got it right. Because my whole life I have been asked all of these things. Are you Mexican? Are you Spanish? Polynesian? Filipino? Hawaiian? Native American? Korean? Japanese? Indian? And my personal
favorite, Eskimo. So, as I look back on this kind of bizarre identity crisis, I have three feelings about it.
One, I feel really angry. I'm angry that people feel the need to put me in the box that makes them think they understand who I am. And I'm sad because they don't know me and they're not seeing me. And I'm relieved because it turns out that identity crisis isn't my problem at all. It's yours.
Joel Dresang: That was Hope Liu from a 2019 Ex Fabula StorySlam at the Jewish Museum Milwaukee, and we actually have an update from her. She says, “I'm still trying to remember that no one can be defined by one aspect of themselves that I might see or know. It's surprisingly hard in this politically charged, hyper-media world to remember and act accordingly. It’s so much easier to categorize and dismiss people. I’m still learning about other people’s life experiences, and I’m humbled at how much more I need to learn. However, some things haven’t changed because, as I said in my story, I still believe that if I work harder at it, I can be better at it.”
Kim Shine: Not bad. Well, respect isn't just something that we give to and get from others. It's something we need to find for ourselves. And that's what Andie Anderson shows us in their story, shared at a 2025 Slam with the theme “Found Family”. Here's Andie.
Andie Anderson: When I was a senior in high school, I came out as bi, and that was a very important part of my life. And coming into college, that was a very big thing as I wanted to be myself, and I wanted to show that I could be, as somebody who was going to be an education major. And that was very important to me.
So, I also decided that I was going to choose a roommate that I knew. Right. Somebody I went to high school with, somebody that I was friends with. So, as we’re becoming roommates and kind of getting to know each other a little bit better, even though we had kind of been friends in high school, you know, we’re... we're watching movies every weekend.
We'd watch rom coms together. And it was this very exciting, bonding thing that we did. And there was one weekend where I was like, hey, can we watch this TV show? It's called Feel Good. It's about this queer romance. I really want to watch it. And she was like, oh, sure, I guess. And I was kind of like, okay, we've just watched all of these movies showing heteronormativity, which is great, but I wanted to really embrace this.
And she just kind of shoved it off and I was like, okay, well, we'll watch it. And she was on her phone the whole time, and I enjoyed it, and I was excited to see it and see this romance. But we didn't really connect as much as we had been on the other shows and movies that we'd been watching.
And so, as we continued to be roommates, we'd be talking and I would say, oh my gosh, like Elizabeth Olsen is so pretty, isn't she? For those of you who don't know, that’s Scarlet Witch in the MCU. And I was like, God, she's so pretty. And my roommate was like, why do you have to make everything so gay?
And I was like, because that's a part of me. Because I like everybody. People are attractive who are attractive, okay. And it kind of stung. And as we continued to be roommates, she said, hey, I'm going to go live with this other person next year. And originally, I was kind of hurt and like, oh, we're not going to be roommates again.
And as the year went on, I went, maybe that's okay. Maybe I'm going to go off and kind of figure myself out. And so, I decided to be an RA, you know, get to know more people and, and meet others. And so, as January rolled around, I decided to put in my application, and I was accepted as an RA.
And that was awesome. And also in January, I was kind of like, hmm. I don't—I don't know that, that this, this, like, title of being a woman feels correct to me. And so, as that month kind of went on, school started back up again. January 20th, I come back to school and we're doing introductions. I'm in an education class, multicultural education.
And they say, hey, introduce yourself, name and pronouns. And I say, “Hi, I use she/her pronouns” and I felt myself shatter in that moment. That is not true. And I couldn't take it back. I felt like it was already out there, and I couldn't do anything. So, for the next six months, I tried to decide, what does that mean to me, that she/her doesn’t fit.
And as I decide, I'm starting to just meet the people that I'm going to be an RA with the next year. And as I come into our meeting in April and I say, “Hi, my name is Andie. I use she/they pronouns.” And they just said, okay, that sounds great. And I was like, oh, okay.
That's awesome. So, I continue on through the summer. I started going by Andie, which I hadn't before. I started working at a new job and nobody else knew me, other than a few people. Then my name was Andie, and I worked with kids and it was great. And then the rest of the year, I was an RA. And that fall semester I said, “Hi, I'm Andie.
I use they/she pronouns.” And that still didn't feel right. That still wasn't correct. And as I talked with my friends who are our age, I got to meet more queer people, more people of different backgrounds, and it was awesome. It was amazing meeting more people. And as I slowly got to see those different perspectives and see those different people, I said, “Hi, I'm Andie, I use they/them pronouns,” and I felt accepted.
And I felt those people who really cared and who corrected others and who made it true to me that that was a true statement. And that's where I am now. Thank you.
Kim Shine
Well, that was Andie Anderson, and we do have an update. Andie says, “First of all, I want to thank my dad's best friend, Mark, who is an Ex Fabula veteran, for encouraging me to tell a story at this StorySlam. I wasn't sure whether I was going to tell a story that night, but so glad I did. After I was done, so many people came up to me and told me how touched they were by my story. Many said they knew people who went through a similar experience and never thought that I would get such a positive response, or that so many people would connect with it.”
Joel Dresang: That's great. Kim, do you want to do some UltraShorts?
Kim Shine: I always love doing UltraShorts because if you go to a Slam and you don't want to get on the stage, you can just write a little, short story on a paper and the host will read it.
Joel Dresang: Because everybody has stories to tell.
Kim Shine: Exactly!
Joel Dresang: Yes. Do you have one?
Kim Shine: I do.
Joel Dresang: Okay.
Kim Shine: This one is from someone who says they're working in Mequon. That is the name that they gave.
Joel Dresang: Okay.
Kim Shine: They say, “I'm really tired of being at the bottom of the totem pole, with people constantly overlooking, disrespecting, and outright lying to and on me. The way I'm treated is outrageous. I keep my attitude in check because I'm Black. If I let it show, y’all gone be pissed.”
Joel Dresang: Big sigh. Here's an ultra short from anonymous. “Even if you don't support me and my life choices, at least respect me and my pronouns. At least listen to me when I yell my real name. Even if you want to ignore me. Even if you don't want to hear me.”
Kim Shine: This here is from Kayla. “After graduating college, I committed a year of service and completed my service with City Year, an educational nonprofit that seeks to provide support to underperforming schools. Equipped with my knowledge of history, context, oppression and systemic racism, I thought I would effortlessly transfer this information to my seventh graders, but I was wrong. I would go on to discover that giving them love, consistency and respect would go further than history lessons on racism and oppression.”
Joel Dresang: Kim, I have another UltraShort. This one is again from anonymous. It says, “There was this dude at my soccer camp who wasn't respecting me. He told me that God made only two genders and that I'm going to hell. He told me liking girls was gross. I tried my hardest to ignore him, but then he started making fun of me for wearing my mask. I told him my father was immunocompromised, and he laughed. He body shamed my friend. So, we started to bring an adult into this. But of course, the adult took this guy’s side. It was impacting my time at this camp. But soon I realized he wasn’t worth it. So, I ignored him. And hopefully in the future, I won’t let the haters get to me.”
Kim Shine: I hope so too, because you know, you stop giving it attention eventually, it’ll just find something else to do.
Joel Dresang: Our third “Respect” story comes from Marshall Hemphill. Marshall learned about respect as a child amid the brutality of civil rights actions in the South, and his lessons have continued as an adult in Milwaukee. Here's Marshall.
Marshall Hemphill: I'm originally from West Helena, Arkansas. I'm a child of the 50s and 60s. In 1964, I was ten years old. There was a lot going on in the country at that time. Lot of, um, civil rights marches, demonstration, riots all over the country, and West Helena was no exception. It was a time when my mother decided that she would introduce me and my twin brother to the world that was growing up in.
She took us to the civil rights march. Moving on to that march, we encountered a sister who was against her taking us to march because the danger. But she took us anyway. And we made it to the, point where the march was started. And that was the first time I saw that many people at one time.
And then at in the same place. Well, shortly after the march was started, about ten minutes into the march, a police officer walked up behind my mother and took his baton and just stabbed her in the back with it. She fell to the ground, and she jumped up and frantically looking for me and my brother, and she grabbed our hands and continued to march.
And about ten minutes later, the same police officer walked up behind her again. Again, stabbed her with this baton. She fell. She jumped up and grabbed us and continue to march. Eventually, we made it to the end of the march, a lot of people crying, some hugging and comforting each other. And so, I'm celebrating. But being stabbed in the back like that.
You’d think that would have been the worst part of her day. But it wasn't. She had to take me and my brother home and try her best to convince us that all white people weren’t bad people, and for me, luckily, I got it, you know. As time went on, I continued to grow up, continued to identify things that just wasn’t fair.
And one morning I woke up and I learned a new word integration. Oh, and all hell broke loose. A lot of violence going on. It was, that uncomfortable stuff going on. But as I grew older, I got married, and then from West Helena, I came to Milwaukee. 40 years later, I did all the things that I was supposed to do.
I got married, got a job, bought a home, raised my kids. I didn't depend on anyone else for anything. One day, one of my cousins called me, he invited me to our house to play dominoes. I had nothing to do. So, I drove by her apartment complex, I parked and started to wait for her. While waiting, the police pull up.
They approached my car from each side and the one police officer asked me a bunch of questions. Wanted my ID, wanted to know where I worked, how old I was, my address, the whole works. One question in particular that he was interested in: “Had you... have you ever been to jail?” I told him no; I’d never been to jail. “You never been to jail for anything?” I said never. And 30 minutes into this, he still checkin and running checks on me.
They constantly come back to the car and asked me the same question: “You’ve never been in jail?” No, I'd never been to jail. But eventually gave me my license back and they drove off. But they didn't go far. I noticed that they drove about a block, turned around and parked, waiting to see if I was going to start my car and pull off.
Well, I sat there, and my cousin came home and I greeted her in her car and we went upstairs and talked for a while. And I explained to her that this guy couldn’t believe that a black man my age never been to jail. I looked at the window to see if they were still parked there. They hadn't moved. And at that point in time, I felt as if that baton was still in my back. Thank you.
Joel Dresang: That was Marshall Hemphill, who shared his story at a 2017 Ex Fabula StorySlam on racial justice. Kim, I have another UltraShort. This one is again from anonymous. “The day after the election, my four-year-old son became obsessed with the Statue of Liberty. We don't know how it started, but it was intense. We bought him a costume complete with torch and crown and robe. He wears it everywhere to school, to his sisters, music class, to parties and most recently to see Santa.” This must have been a few months ago. “People’s reactions have been interesting. Some people think it’s patriotic, some think it’s cute. Santa rolled his eyes and said someone sent the tax man. We’re just glad he has so much admiration for strong women holding torches.”
Kim Shine: Now that is true respect. I'm here for it. Where did you come from, my friend? My little four-year-old friend. Our final story comes from Susannah Bartlow, who reminds us of their respect isn't just about individuals, it extends to the belief and work of others. Here's Susannah from an Ex Fabula StorySlam back in 2021.
Susannah Bartlow: So, when I got the phone call, you know, when you get that feeling, you know right away that there's something different about this phone call, even if it's the same one that you've had 20 times before. It was on a Sunday night, and I had had conversations with my boss on a weekend before. I was the director of a gender and sexuality resource center at a Catholic school.
So, we had talked on the weekends before. We'd had some issues. But I could tell there was something different about this phone call. I could tell it more in the tone of his voice, and he asked me a couple questions. He said to me, first of all, whose idea was it to choose Assata Shakur? Now, Assata Shakur is, very well-known Black activists from the 60s and 70s.
She was falsely convicted of shooting a New Jersey state trooper. She's been living in exile in Cuba, and she's become kind of an icon for the Black Lives Matter movement. She also was someone that the students at my resource center had chosen as the subject of a mural that they wanted to do for community outreach. And we had a community artist who was working at the center who made a design, both of Assata Shakur and of Audre Lorde.
And they chose between those two figures. And so, when he asked me that question, there were a couple things inside that question. One of them was, was it you or was it someone else? And the other question was, why in the hell would you choose Assata Shakur? And so, my answer to the question had to be very careful where I said, well, I approved it.
I approved the choice. I think it's a good choice and it's what the students wanted.
And the other question he asked me was, is it a problem? Would it be, you know, is there any reason that we should not paint over the mural? And of course, there were a lot of reasons running through my mind. But again, you know, when you hear in someone's voice that there's only one possible answer to that question.
Andie Anderson: And so if I was thinking between, you know, in my director head on a Sunday night, I was like, well, if it's either the center where we can keep doing ongoing work or the mural, then I'm going to say: if that's what has to happen, then that's what has to happen. So that was a conversation that I had with him on Sunday night.
Now I get in on Monday morning and for the first time in I can't tell you how long, I was there at 8:30. And so I get in on Monday morning, but as I'm walking down 15th Street, I see the community artist who's the program assistant, who really did such a spectacular job with this project. And the students really did lead the experience.
And we had all these beautiful conversations with one another. And the mural had been up for about six weeks when I had this phone call. So when I was walking in on 15th Street, I saw the artis leaving. And we had the kind of relationship—we had had this really beautiful, collective management experience all year long. And the mural was, in a lot of ways, a culmination of the connection and the power that we had shared together.
And as she was leaving, she looked like I had never seen her look before. She was looking down. She was very emotional, and I didn't—She was on the other side of the street. And although, you know, every time we walk in, we say, oh, good morning. Hi, how are you? You know, we had that kind of connection, but this time I was like, she needs to walk.
She needs to go. She's got to get out of here. And I knew why because she had walked into the office that we shared and seen a completely blank wall. So, when I walked up and I saw the blank wall, I stood there. I took a picture of the blank white wall. The whole thing had been whitewashed. And then I, you know, sat down and my boss called me a little bit after that, and we had another almost identical conversation.
He asked me the same questions. I had a face-to-face meeting with him and someone from HR a couple hours later. I had a super productive day because I was like, you know, if this is going to happen, I'm going to leave it just in order. And then I got called in about 4:00 that afternoon and I got fired.
So, one of the quotes on the mural was “No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them. No one is going to teach you your true history, teach you your true heroes, if they know that knowledge will help set you free.”
Kim Shine: That was Susannah Bartlow, and she says “My biggest related update is that I now live in Minneapolis and I'm working on speculative fiction about white women's role in history. I manage community outreach for Cancer Clinical Trials Network, and I co-facilitate Finding Freedom, a workshop for white women taking on white supremacy.”
Joel Dresang: Kim, that's all the time we have for this episode of Real Stories MKE but Ex Fabula has many more stories to share. It has been hosting StorySlams since 2009, and everybody can find some of those stories at exfabula.org
Kim Shine: That is right and more stories are on their way. We have one more this season. Oh, I'm so excited for it. The Ex Fabula website lists upcoming storytelling workshops and Slams so that you can join in on the storytelling. And we can do more episodes of Real Stories. You can also connect with Ex Fab on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Bluesky, and you can subscribe to Real Stories MKE wherever you get your podcasts.
Joel Dresang: Thanks to everyone who makes Real Stories MKE possible, including the storytellers, Ex Fabula staff, Ex Fabula members, our producer Jordan Terry and audio engineer Sam Woods. Also, a special shout out to 89.7 WUWM.
Kim Shine: Milwaukee’s NPR.
Joel Dresang: An Ex Fabula season sponsor and an empowering partner for this show.
Kim Shine: That is very true. We do appreciate your support. For Real Stories MKE, I'm Kim Shine.
Joel Dresang: I respect that. I'm Joel Dresang. Remember, everybody has stories worth sharing. Think of telling yours.
