Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson sat down with WUWM's Sam Woods to discuss the city’s role in federal immigration enforcement.
In the interview, Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson said he does not intend to declare Milwaukee a sanctuary city, in hopes that the city won't stand out for potential repercussions from President Donald Trump.
The term 'sanctuary city' does not have a legal definition and self-described sanctuary cities are not required to act differently than non-sanctuary cities. However, some cities — such as Chicago — have used the term to signify their opposition to detaining immigrants in community spaces, such as schools, churches or grocery stores.
“I don’t want to put the city of Milwaukee in a position where we’re being targeted by the Trump administration. I think that only serves to heighten the anxieties that people already have in this community,” he said.
However, Johnson also emphasized that he intends for Milwaukee to be a welcoming city to immigrants and highlighted ways in which city policy is friendly to people without U.S. citizenship.
“I don’t think we necessarily need to have that title on us to be able to execute the values that we have,” he said. “Where we don’t have police officers interrogating people about their immigration status, where we’re not asking people when they come for city services what their immigration status is.”
Johnson said that the city only shares information involving "violent felons” with federal immigration authorities. Milwaukee Police Department policy states that “whenever a police member arrests or detains a person, the police member shall not inquire as to that person’s citizenship to determine whether or not any consulate notification obligations apply.”
Johnson said he does not receive updates on federal immigration enforcement activity within Milwaukee. He said that he also has not requested information from the federal government on immigration enforcement activities — including raids within city limits — and is skeptical it would be provided to him if he requested it.
“I would imagine that information would come out, as it would, in real time,” he said. “I think if there was a raid or some sort from Immigration Customs Enforcement, I think that information would be presented and known to the public.”
As to what he would do if Trump withholds federal funds in exchange for further cooperation with immigration enforcement, Johnson said he did not want to speculate. “Let's see how this unfolds before we, you know, tell them what our lines in the sand are as it relates to that or any number of things," he said.
Here is the transcript of Mayor Johnson's WUWM interview:
WUWM's Sam Woods: I want to start with establishing some basics about the city of Milwaukee's role in immigration enforcement. So, Mayor Johnson, does the City of Milwaukee — including its police department — share any information with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE?
Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson: So, the city of Milwaukee, generally speaking, does not have a role in terms of immigration, immigration enforcement. There are levels that particular governments have responsibility to. The federal government’s responsibility is immigration customs enforcement. That is not the priority for local governments, certainly for the City of Milwaukee. For us, there may be some very small, very small areas where there's some collaboration. That's if someone is, say, a violent felon or something of that sort of type. But, generally speaking, the police department in the City of Milwaukee does not cooperate – or not "not cooperate” necessarily – but the City of Milwaukee does not have any collaboration with ICE or with any immigration or customs enforcement agencies.
So, in the past you've spoken out against President Trump's immigration rhetoric and policy of mass deportation. As the mayor of Milwaukee, do you have power to stop it?
I don't think that anybody – any local official – has the power to stop a federal action from happening in their respective jurisdictions, and the City of Milwaukee certainly fits that same sort of mold. For us, we've had policies – our police department has – where generally we want everybody to feel respected. We want everybody to have their rights to be known, and we don't encourage the police department to do what some perhaps think is happening not just here, but in other places – and that's working directly with ICE. We have our own public safety challenges in the City of Milwaukee. I want our officers focused on those things. So, we don't generally ask people about what their immigration status is or anything of the sort in the City of Milwaukee.
As mayor of Milwaukee, do you receive regular updates on ICE’s operations in the city? So, this can be raids within city limits, number of residents detained, anything like that?
No, I've not gotten that information – and not just as mayor. I mean, as city council president, which I was beforehand, or even just as an alder – which, I was elected in 2016, the same year that Donald Trump was elected for the first go around to the presidency – no. We hadn't gotten that sort of information. I haven't gotten that information as president either, what ICE is doing out in the field.
Is that something you've ever requested?
That's not something that I've requested, but I don't think that's something that they would necessarily share either, right? If it's in the realm of public safety – if they have a targeted mission that they're seeking to accomplish – you know, broadening the scope of who knows information about that probably doesn't suit their interests. So, I don't think that that is something that they would share regardless.
If in the future, President Trump withholds federal funds in exchange for cooperation with ICE, further cooperation with ICE, will you do anything differently?
You know, this is what my positioning has been: I don't think that everything that the president says or does, that we should jump up and down and try to meet him at. I think, you know, many times in his administration he’s trying to get a rise out of people – trying to see whose head pops up out of the water first and then take a shot at that particular person or that particular municipality. We saw this the first go round with Donald Trump. There will be, you know, a great number of things said, a great number of outlandish things said – just rhetoric that we find reprehensible. Rhetoric that I personally find reprehensible even today. But I don't think that simply responding to everything that he says or does is in the best interests of the city of Milwaukee.
So, the answer that I'm hearing is no, you wouldn't do anything differently if Trump says, “You won't get these funds if I don't get this cooperation?”
I don't want to speculate on, you know, what will or may not happen. Let's see how this unfolds before we, you know, tell them what our lines in the sand are as it relates to that or any number of things. Like, again, I don't want to put Milwaukee in a position – and I think this is, you know, unfortunate to say, I don’t want to put – as the leader of the largest, most diverse, economically significant place in the state of Wisconsin – I don't want to put us in the crosshairs of the president of the United States because I'm in a position where I'm jumping up and down and responding to each and every single thing that he says or does. You know, perhaps there'll be times where that has to happen, but on a daily basis I'm not going to be jumping up and down to the beat of the drum that Donald Trump does.
Can you commit to regular updates – we’ll say quarterly updates – on information that you get related to mass deportations in Milwaukee? This can be, again, if there was an ICE raid that you know of within the city limits or communication you've had with federal agencies about immigration enforcement. Is that something that you can commit to going forward?
I would imagine that that information would come out as it is, or as it would, in real time. But again, I don't know if they would tell us that information anyhow, as I said previously. I mean, in my role as mayor, I haven't gotten that information. Now, that's been during President Joe Biden's administration. I hadn't gotten that information as council president. Some of that time overlapped with President Trump. And I didn't get that information previously as a member of the cabinet council under President Trump's initial term in office.
So, to be clear, that's a no because that's not information that you have to share?
I don't think that, that information would come. It hasn't. So, I don't want to say what will or will not happen with an administration that – judging by what happened in the initial Trump White House and administration – an administration that's built on sort of division and chaos and having people on pins and needles for four years. I don't want to put the city in that sort of position. But, to your question about just the transparency of it all, I think if there were to be a raid from Immigration Customs Enforcement, I think that information would be presented and known to the public, as it were. I know just recently there was a question about whether or not there was a raid that happened in the City of Milwaukee already, and questions about whether or not that was ICE. It was not. It was just an inspection. But that information had already matriculated out into the public anyway, without me having to come and say, you know, “this happened” or “that happened” with information that the agency hasn't given me in the past and that I doubt the agency would give me in the future.
So, one more question on this and then we'll get to other topics. So, the term “sanctuary city” has been used by local officials across the country to signify their opposition to detaining immigrants in schools, churches, grocery stores, things like that. Understanding that the term “sanctuary city” does not have a set definition and does not carry with it legal requirements for action, have you ever declared Milwaukee a sanctuary city?
I had not declared Milwaukee a sanctuary city. I've, of course, heard of the term. I know the number of cities across the country are designated as such, and that has been for the last number of years – at least the last probably 10 years. And that hasn't happened in the past in this city either. But again, I think this gets to what my values are as mayor, some that I just talked about a bit ago. Like, I want every single person who lives in Milwaukee – who calls Milwaukee home – to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to feel respected when they're engaging not just with the City of Milwaukee, but with any government entity. That includes the federal government as well. That’s what my value is. That's what my priority would be. So, we don't do that. Again, our law enforcement in the City of Milwaukee does not ask individuals about their immigration status, so I certainly don't want to see something like that. But, in terms of the City of Milwaukee being designated as such, as I said before, I don't want to put the City of Milwaukee in a position where we're being targeted by the Trump administration, right? I think that only serves to heighten the anxieties that people already have in this community. We saw just last week the anxiety that folks had in this community from a facility that simply was moving from one location to another. It wasn’t an expansion of capacity or anything like that. In fact, that was happening under the Biden administration. This had been two years in the making, and the simple move from one place to another place caused, you know, all this sort of uproar. So, I don't want to put the City of Milwaukee in a position where there's additional focus or attention from this White House.
Yeah. I mean, I can understand that, especially given what you mentioned about the ICE facility moving to the 9th Aldermanic District. And I can understand not wanting to put a spotlight on Milwaukee for the Trump administration. I get that. Do you see any value to the term, saying, “We are a sanctuary city; this is something that is stating our intentions,” or is it just kind of like, “Hey, we don't we don't want to stick out?”
Well, I mean, as you said, there's no set definition to what a sanctuary city is, right? So, I don't think we necessarily need to have that title on us to be able to execute the values that we have: some of the values that I just talked about right now, some of the things that we have done in the past, some of the things we continue to do under my leadership as the mayor of this city, where we don't have police officers interrogating people about their immigration status, where we're not asking people when they come for city services what their immigration status is. I mean, even years ago when I was a member of the city council, I believe I was a co-sponsor on the municipal ID program to make sure that people who live in the City of Milwaukee – regardless of who you are – had the opportunity to have a photo ID so you can access city services. So that's what our values are, and I don't think that having that designation would alter what our values are in this city.
