All good (and not so good) things must come to an end; that includes relationships. Break ups can suck, but they can also be liberatory or necessary. This episode was hosted by Kim Shine & Joel Dresang, edited by Sam Wood and includes three stories based on the theme of “Break Ups” from Craig Wiroll, Tony Anderson and Kennita Hickman.
Episode transcript below from Ex Fabula's Real Storie MKE series.
Kim Shine:Welcome to Real Stories MKE, brought to you by Ex Fabula, as part of its mission to connect Milwaukee through real stories. I'm Kim Shine.
Joel Dresang: And I’m Joel Dresang. Ex Fabula believes that everyone has personal stories worth sharing. Ex Fabula conducts storytelling workshops for community members to build their storytelling skills and confidence, and Ex Fabula hosts StorySlams where folks share their true stories on stage. Today, we're bringing you three of those heartbreaking stories.
Kim Shine: And maybe they're heartbreaking, but maybe they're not. This season of Real Stories MKE is presented by Christine Symchych and Jim McNulty. Thank you guys. The theme for this episode is “Break Ups.” So when you usually consider a separation, our minds might go to a more negative or sad place. But because life happens, a breakup can actually be an awakening in our stories. This time, fresh starts are more of the vibe here. Lessons learned, experience had, and new paths ahead.
Joel Dresang: So, Kim, when you came up with the idea for breakups....
Kim Shine: Yeah!
Joel Dresang: For an episode. Ever since then I've had this song in my head. It's Gladys Knight and the Pips singing. ‘Neither one of us wants to be the first to say goodbye.”
Kim Shine: Okay. Yeah, I think it goes [singing] “Neither one of us...”
Joel Dresang: [singing] “Wants to be the first to say. Neither one of us.” [music clip plays]
“...wants to be the first to say, neither one of us!”
Kim Shine: Joel is...Joel is becoming a pimp right now.
Joel Dresang: Because I've had it in my head this whole week. But. But I think that's how it goes a lot of times, because you're in a relationship and not all relationships are meant to last forever. And...
Yeah, and yet a lot of times, relationships, you know, overstay their welcome because nobody wants to be the bad guy.
Kim Shine: You're holding on. Yeah.
Joel Dresang: So, so, I have an example of, of, I used to be in a comedy group called Sketch Marx. It was a sketch comedy group. It was a great name. And we were together for five years and had some success and had a lot of one of our taglines was friends on stage having fun, and that's what it was.
But it got to a point where it wasn't as much fun, and I was afraid that it was going to end friendships. So, I did as one of the people in the group later said, I did the kill shot and and told everybody, hey, great time, let's quit.
Kim Shine: It’s over!
Joel Dresang : Yeah, let's quit while we're still ahead.
Kim Shine: While we're still friends.
Joel Dresang: Yeah. And, you know, not everybody took it well to begin with. But the first email of that I got back after I did that, somebody said, thank you for doing what I didn't have the nerve to do so, but but sometimes that has to happen.
Kim Shine: Yeah. And if you can feel it, just go ahead and do it.
Joel Dresang: Yes, yes.
Kim Shine: And it'll be okay. I don't have any breakup stories I want to share, per say.
Joel Dresang: Oh, come on.
Kim Shine: I mean, they I, I cry, they hurt my feelings. So, I'm like, oh, I hurt my feelings. Oh, it's so bad. So, I don't share my breakup stories. But I will say that breakups don't necessarily have to be people.
Joel Dresang: Right? Yeah. You break up with a job sometimes. Yes. Or they break up with you.
Kim Shine: Right. Haha. Bye! Right. And so I think my I think I'm in a period of life right now where I'm breaking up from just a lot of old things, just kind, similar to your story and I'm just kind of moving on. And that's what when I came up with the breakup theme, that's more so what I was looking for. Just stories about moving ahead, moving forward.
Kim Shine: So let's get to the stories okay. Our first story comes from Craig Wiroll. During the “Deal Breaker” Slam in April 2019, Craig learned that mistakes happen and sometimes they make for a funnier tale later on.
Craig Wiroll: Oh, hey everyone, I've been a bit homesick, so it's nice to hear, about the Steinhoffels. That was nice. I just drove here from LA three days ago, and I've been away for about a decade, so it's nice to be home. So that story was interesting. Christine, was that your fake name? But we both just drove across the country.
So, I'm going to tell you about a deal breaker I've been trying to get rid of my whole life. So this goes back to when I was 16 years old. So there was this girl I was chatting up on. AIM. That’s AOL Instant Messenger. We were talking for years. We both like the same ska music and the same punk music. We both had...
This is an odd thing, but we both had very large aunts and we bonded over it, her aunt and my aunt for being large, funny people, and we're like, haha, we have similar aunts and just stupid juvenile stuff, and we're like, we're made for each other. So it took a couple of years, but my friend was like, I'm going over to her house, do you want to come with?
And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, this is a big deal. I was not a cool kid. So at 16, this is like my first time I have a chance to meet a girl. I'm excited. We go over there and I'm shy. She's shy, she's nervous, and we're making each other laugh. So it's going really well.
And I'm starting to get these butterflies. I'm like, how do I—How do I keep these feelings going? I'm liking this. And, you know, we didn't nothing happened that day. We go home or I go home. We keep chatting online and I'm like, man, this is exciting. I want to go hang out with her again. I ask her to come over to my house.
And, you know, we're watching, like, America's Funniest Home Videos, whatever people do in those early 20s and, we're laughing, we're having a great time. And she starts moving her face towards my face. So I have to say, I grew up a very shy, fat, weird kid that no one liked. And I just played video games and drew, I was, I was weird, I was a little weirdo.
I just hid behind my mom all the time. So this was the first time I've had this experience of a face coming towards my face out of admiration, and I, I, I ducked, I dove, I dove out of the way, and then it was so awkward after that. I'm rubbing my neck. I'm like, so I guess I should drive you home.
She didn't have her license yet, but a week later, I go to her house. I go to her house and we're in the basement. We're watching Disney Channel or something like that. You know what cool kids do? And I'm like, alright, I'm ready. And she's looking me in that—She's giving me that same look in the eyes.
She's forgiven me. And so I'm like, I can do this. And we rub faces together, specifically our mouth part of our faces. So it's kind of like a kiss. My first kiss. And I get in the car. It's December in Wisconsin. I'm from Sheboygan. I get in the car, I'm on the highway. I'm elated. I'm like, I feel like my car just starts going into the clouds.
I'm so happy on my way home. And then someone just storms by me going like 80mph and I'm like, you jerk, and I shouldn't have done that because, you know, there's no friction on the road. So my car starts spinning, spins like eight times on 43. Is that the highway? I've been away for a while. It spins, it spins, it's spins.
And then it's like, dangling over the side and I'm like, what the hell? I almost died. But then I, like, look up into the clouds. I'm like, I don't care. I'm so happy right now. I didn't care, I almost died and I couldn't get back on the road. Luckily, a cop came by, helped me back onto the highway, and I proceeded, but it didn't matter anyway.
I go to her house the next time. It's my birthday. I'm really excited. She made a card for me, so she gives me the card and then she says, “I'm going to get back together with my ex-boyfriend. Sorry. Bye.” I was so heartbroken. So heartbroken. But a year later, it felt like forever in teenage years. But a year later, my friend is like, “I'm going to the beach with my girlfriend.
There's this other girl there. You should come. Her name is Jessie.” And I was like, oh, Jessie, is that my, non possessive, Jessie? The Jessie I know? So I join them, and it is her and she looks better than ever and I'm so excited. We walk hand in hand on the lighthouse in Sheboygan. We are, like, it's just like old times.
It all comes right back. So for hours we walk. We laugh up the up the lighthouse and, you know, back along the beach. And at the end she looks me in the eye. That same look that I recognize from earlier, you know, a year ago. And I look her in the eye and she says, “What do you think?
Should we give it another shot like old times?” And I say, “You know what? You broke my heart and you can”—Are we allowed to swear?—“and you can go f yourself!” And I stormed off with my pride. And to this day I hate myself. I, I so badly wanted to be happy, but I am such a proud, stupid moron.
I didn't allow myself to be happy. So that is a deal breaker that I'm working to work on is forgiving people, getting over things. And, you know, people make mistakes, and you got to let them do that. But, a little follow up real quick. Ten years later, I pull up to a stop sign when I'm visiting my mom back in Sheboygan, I look over, I see Jessie.
We don't make that same face, slightly different this time because her husband's also looking at me, and the two kids in the back seat are also looking at me. So I just give her the little nod like, hey, how's it going? And she gives me the nod like, I see you. I see you seeing me. And that was it.
I've never seen her again. That was about eight years ago now. So thank you.
Kim Shine: So, that was Craig Wiroll and we have an update from him. So Craig visited his hometown back in 2021 and a randomly ran into his 16 year old love. She invited him out to dinner. He learned that she had a son, so he introduced himself as an old friend. But ultimately their paths had gone in different directions and the chemistry was gone.
Kim Shine: Now, Craig did give us another update about a second relationship, but it's a long story short, love is still very much an elusive situation for him.
Joel Dresang: But he's still getting stories out of it.
Kim Shine: Yes.
Joel Dresang: Oh, that's not all bad.
Kim Shine: Positive, positive!
Joel Dresang: UltraShorts?
Kim Shine: Yes. Let's do.
Joel Dresang: Them. Okay, so ultra shorts are a little 2 to 3 sentences that have the relationship to the theme of the StorySlam. And you write it on a slip of paper and the hosts read them.
Kim Shine: Yeah. Let's go.
Joel Dresang: Okay. You got one
Kim Shine: I do. This one is from Nope. “My ex-girlfriend and I have broken up and gotten back together over ten times. The strong attraction remains. It's been over two years since we've dated. Then on a recent snowy evening, we got together and quote “used our time wisely, if you know what I mean.” And she's sitting next to me right now.
Joel Dresang: Oh, that's sweet. This one is from anonymous. “In sixth grade my girlfriend dumped me which was great because I found out I liked boys.”
Kim Shine: This one here is also from anonymous. “An old friend was consoling me after I discovered my girlfriend had been cheating on me. Turns out, he was the person she was sleeping with.”
Joel Dresang: Here's another ultra-short from anonymous. “My first real boyfriend was my first kiss. His breath was terrible. It constantly smelled like stale KitKats and Mountain Dew.”
Kim Shine: What?!
Joel Dresang: “To top it off. My dog is less sloppy with his kisses. Hard pass.”
Kim Shine: Yeah, I'm with you, anonymous. Hard pass.
Joel Dresang: Our second breakup story is from Tony Anderson at the Adulting StorySlam in April 2024. Tony's breakup was actually with his career, and what happened next was literally life changing. Here's Tony.
Tony Anderson: So, as adults, we all make decisions that are going to affect our lives, but the decisions that we make in our 20s are not necessarily the decisions that we would make when we're 40, in our 40s. So I want to tell you about the biggest breakup of my life. I didn't mean for it to happen. In fact, I spent a lot of time developing the relationship.
But after nearly 20 years, I had to walk away. I had to say goodbye to my relationship with journalism.
It was a tough, tough decision. I didn't mean for it to happen. In fact, journalism and I had built a really good life together. It all started back in college. We had this communications class together. The next semester, we had a couple more classes, and one class led to another until we developed a major relationship and it didn't end there.
We went to graduate school together and after graduation we decided to make our relationship official. And so I took a job writing for a community newspaper. We weren't making a lot of money, but that didn't matter because we were spending our days and many of our nights together.
Over time, our relationship evolved, and whether covering elections or writing heartwarming feature stories, journalism and I remained close.
And then I got a job working for a legal newspaper, and the passion exploded as I combined my love of the law with writing and reporting. I worked my way up into a management position as the managing editor of the Wisconsin Law Journal, and it was great. We went on that way for years, and I watched as some of my coworkers began breaking up.
They started new relationships with marketing and grant writing and corporate communications. But I knew that my relationship was strong. And then one day, I started stepping out. I wouldn't call it cheating. Some people refer to it as volunteering.
I started going over to a school located at Fourth and National and working through the Junior Achievement Program, I worked with an amazing third grade teacher in a bilingual classroom. It was an amazing experience. I didn't plan for it to go any further. It was just a few hours here and there. Nothing important, nothing big. We went on that way for about five years and slowly I realized that I was falling in love with teaching.
There was something amazing about standing up in front of a group of students and engaging them in conversation that led to new ideas. I can't describe the magic of that light bulb moment when a student's eyes light up as they understand the concept that have been out of reach. I didn't try to hide what was going on.
Family and friends started noticing. The teacher that I was working with noticed and she told me that I should make a break. My wife noticed too. She said that I was much more excited coming home from working with those students than I was coming home from the newspaper.
So, I started thinking, and I realized that I wasn't the same person who had come into this relationship as a college student. I wanted more, and I told that to my publisher. She was incredibly supportive. And so, as a 45-year-old, I went back to school and got my teaching certification. Now, I know some of you might be thinking this is just another midlife crisis, but you'd be wrong.
I've been teaching for the last 13 years, and I look forward to every day that I get to spend with my seven- and eight-year-olds.
It's fun, it's exciting, and it is incredibly rewarding. I am so grateful that I had the support of family and friends, as I was able to embark on this new, amazing relationship. Thank you.
Joel Dresang: That was Tony Anderson from a StorySlam in April 2024.
Kim Shine: Yeah. And you had asked me before if if me leaving TV news and coming into...and being into radio, if that was me kind of breaking up with journalism.
Joel Dresang: Yes.
Kim Shine: Honestly, I don't think so. I'm still in media. I still love journalism. I'm doing— I'm definitely doing something totally different, different types of challenges and different types of environments, but I don't think so because I still love it.
Joel Dresang: And, you know, and it's interesting because sometimes you break up from a relationship and sometimes relationships just change. And the nature of journalism is changing. And so, you know, you really haven't left the profession. You're still practicing it in different ways.
Kim Shine: Yeah, I would say it's more of an evolution. It was funny to me, somebody said that I had retired. And I died laughing because I never thought of it that way. I, I kind of think it's more like...
Joel Dresang: Do you get like, a pension and stuff?
Kim Shine: I know, right? Like, can I get some money? Shoot. But no, I, I thought of it more as, like a sabbatical. Kinda sorta.
Joel Dresang: Yeah, sure.
Kim Shine: I think I've just, you know, taking a pause, exploring new things. And maybe I'll come back one day.
Joel Dresang: You know, I worked in journalism for 30 years, and, and I still sort of view myself as a journalist, but I, I'm not working in journalism anymore, but I view things that way.
Kim Shine: Yeah.
Joel Dresang: Sometimes I refer to myself as a a journalist emeritus.
Kim Shine: Oh, I like that. I like that because the thing about it with this industry, as you know, it teaches you so much like, so many life skills that you can apply to anything. I mean, in my own life, I'm not going to say, like, sometimes stress stresses me out, but if there's other situations or other people, I can be so calm under pressure.
Kim Shine: Yes. I can be focused, I can do my job and, you know, just get things done. And I like that about what I've learned.
Joel Dresang: Yeah. I mean, just being able to work on deadlines, to be able to to think quickly, to be able to get along with other people. Yeah. Talk with them, to relate to them. And I mean, one of the biggest things that we got out of journalism, or that you're still getting out of journalism, is storytelling.
Kim Shine: That is so true. Bring it, bring it back to the show, Joel. That is exactly what it is. And I don't know if we've done an episode on this, but I just have always been a curious, mischievous person, you know, shout out to episode five. But I've been able to kind of nurture my curiosity through journalism and through storytelling.
Joel Dresang: Yes, I often think of journalism as, being respectfully curious.
Kim Shine: Yes, yes. Our final story. Guys, I know we're going to have to break up with you guys soon. Our final story is from Kennita Hickman. She told this one back in November of 2019. And if you're looking for the sad story of this episode, this one might come close. But you'll see that there's always a silver lining and always the option to choose yourself.
Kennita Hickman: So, this story is going to contain some TMI. And both of my bosses are in the room tonight, so....Exactly, David. Yeesh. So, I was really excited because my boyfriend was coming by and, I hadn't seen him in a couple months. We both lived in Milwaukee. All of my friends thought that was weird. I was not as troubled by that.
I kind of liked the space. So he's coming by and we're going to spend some time together. So he brings me food. That's a good sign. And, we're sitting on the couch and we're watching a commercial, and it's like one of those overstock commercials where, like, the husband is opening these cabinets and finding, like, bulk paper products everywhere.
And he's like, what? Like, what is this? Because his wife is, like, spent all this money and my partner at the time says to me, “Oh my gosh, I cannot wait until my wife does that. Can you imagine, like, how much money you have to spend or how much money you have to make for your wife to be able to spend money and you not know what she's spending it on.”
And as I'm sitting there, what I heard was he imagined wealth. He'd imagined being married again. He'd imagined what it would look like to have that type of money. But he didn't see me as his wife.
Now, I wish I could tell you that I did not join him back at his house for adult activities later on that evening. I did, but as adult activities, as adult activities are happening, my spirit is saying, sis, he did not say you. And so as he went off to his slumber, I am still like laying there like crying silently because I knew I had to say goodbye and I just wasn't sure how.
It took me six weeks to get the courage. And I remember during that six weeks my birthday came and I had filmed an episode of this vlog that I'm working on, and I remember it was my birthday, and I was on vacation from my job., Ex Fabula, and all I wanted that night was for him to call, and he never called, like, never called.
So, not only is it my birthday, but I just executive produced my first series and I couldn't even share it with him. It still took me another two weeks to break up with him, and I did it through text message because I couldn't find him.
So, I sent a text message. I felt like I was in a good place. And it's interesting because during the duration of our relationship, I had been doing some healing and trauma work, and I thought that the healing and trauma was so that I could be a better partner to him. And I feel like the the culmination of that trauma or the healing was so that I could leave him and recognize my own strength.
And so I did, and I didn't hear from him until I changed my LinkedIn profile, saying that I was now a director for artist support and outreach for Imagine MKE. Three hours later, I get a text message that says, I want to apologize. Please pick up your phone. So I pick it up and he apologizes and blah, blah, blah.
And so because I'm, I'm a fairly blunt person, I was like, so what do you want? Are you apologizing for the sake of apologizing? Are you apologizing because you want some conversation over coffee and you want to kind of see what goes on, or you apologize because you're interested in engaging in some funny shit, let me know so that I can pivot.
Right? And he was like, well, now that you mentioned the latter... Right. So as this call is happening a few weeks ago, keep in mind I've started casually dating someone else. So I call that person and I say, “Hey, my ex just called and I'm probably gonna go for it. Like, no, no, no, I'm not going to date him.
But I mean he has some good benefits that I really like. Don't judge me.”
So, so my, my current casual partner is like, “Do what you do, be responsible.” And I was like, oh, all right. Well, it wound up not happening because it turns out he's still him. And while he talked about all of this change that he made, when I took the moment via text message to say to him, you really hurt me that moment on the couch because this is what I heard.
And when he became defensive, I recognize that engaging with him sexually like that would just be detrimental to my spirit. And I had worked really hard to like, fix and heal myself. And so I officially said goodbye and I blocked him.
Yeah!
Kim Shine: That was Kennita Hickman. So, Joel.
Joel Dresang: Yes, Kim?
Kim Shine: Should we do some more UltraShorts?
Joel Dresang: We should.
Kim Shine: You got one?
Joel Dresang: Yeah, I do, this is from anonymous “Spent the better part of my 20s (and this is in quotes) “dating my father.” Needless to say, they're all now my ex.”
Kim Shine: This one here is from Lori. “Absolutely fell in love with a guy when I was 18 in Illinois. We went our separate ways, and at 27 and newly divorced and moved to Riverwest from Mequon, three blocks away from that 18 year old guy. Five years later, got married during Riverwest24. We were a bonus checkpoint. Celebrating eight years of marriage in 2025.
Joel Dresang: Wow, mazel tov. That's great.
Kim Shine: Yeah. This one here is from AMP or A-M-P. We got some initials here possibly. “I knew it was really over when he deleted my profile from his Netflix account.” Sad face.
Joel Dresang: That's a breakup. Yes.
Kim Shine: And guys, that's all the time we have for this episode of Real Stories MKE. But Ex Fabula has more stories to share. It's been hosting StorySlams since 29, and there are more audio and video stories at exfabula.org.
Joel Dresang: And the stories keep on coming. The Ex Fabula website lists upcoming storytelling workshops and StorySlams, and that's so you can join in on the storytelling. You can also connect with Ex Fabula on Facebook, Instagram, X. Bluesky and TikTok. And subscribe to Real Stories MKE wherever you get podcasts.
Kim Shine: There's so many ways to stay connected. Okay guys, thanks to everybody who makes this program possible, including Ex Fabula staff, the storytellers, our producer, Jordan Terry and audio engineer, Sam Woods.
Joel Dresang: Thanks, Sam.
Kim Shine: And thank you to all the financial supporters of Ex Fabula, including the Wisconsin Arts Board, CAMPAC, and Ex Fabula members.
Joel Dresang: For Real Stories MKE, I'm Joel Dresang.
Kim Shine: And I am Kim Shine. Thank you so much for listening. And don't forget: everybody has a story to tell. Think of telling yours.
