Friday 4/17/26: Uecker doc, dioramas, All of the Above

Xcaret Nuñez: From 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR, this is "Lake Effect". I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Today, the filmmakers behind the new “Ueck” documentary share what it was like to work with the local legend, Bob Uecker. Then, we'll learn how the Milwaukee Public Museum's diorama, “Habitat for Muskrats,” changed the way museums present information.

Dr. Ellen Censky: This was really revolutionary in trying to create a teaching tool that allowed you to learn more just by looking at something.

Xcaret Nuñez: Plus, we'll learn about Torchy Timberloss, Wisconsin's very own fire mascot.

Michele Witecha: “[He] originated in the 1950s, kind of about the same time Smokey Bearer came on the scene, but we'd like to see him kind of evolve and change into representing more of the good fire.”

Xcaret Nuñez: All that's coming up on "Lake Effect.” This is "Lake Effect" from 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Thanks for joining us today. Bob Uecker is a local legend who seemingly did it all. He was a professional baseball player, Hall of Fame sportscaster, comedian, and actor. For decades, he made us laugh and kept his company on the radio and at the ballpark. Uecker passed away at age 90 in January of 2025. A new documentary called “Ueck” is a testament to his continuing legacy. It's made by Milwaukee-based filmmakers, Michael Vollmann and Steve Farr: . They joined "Lake Effect"'s Audrey Nowakowski to talk about the film.

Audrey Nowakowski: So before we get into the documentary, I would love to know what your first memories of Ueck were. Just, as people living in the Milwaukee area, what about him stuck out to you and cemented him in your lives?

Steve Farr: Well, I think for me it was... I'm a little bit older than Michael, so I actually remember when he appeared on “The Tonight Show” in the early 70s. And I can remember my dad being aware that he'd be on, and that I'd be able to stay up late and watch Johnny Carson and seeing Uecker on that. And yeah, I was already kind of a big baseball fan, and I think I already knew it was kind of weird that the baseball announcer was on “The Tonight Show,” but that's probably my earliest memory.

Audrey Nowakowski: How about for you, Michael?

Michael Vollmann: Yeah, for me, definitely through baseball, through the Brewers, growing up and really liking baseball. 1987, , the Brewers went on some winning streaks and I really got hooked. And when I was a kid, I would listen to every single radio broadcast, pretty much. And one thing I used to do is I had a boombox with two tape cassette recorders in it, and I would try to record the ambient audio of the crowd between Uecker’s announcing and then try to like tape it to the other tape. So there'd be like a string out of ambient audio, and I would then play it back and try to impersonate Uecker.

Audrey Nowakowski: I love that. Now this documentary, simply called “Ueck.” And appropriately, it was filmed over what turned out to be the last three years of Bob Uecker's life. How did it first come about, and was Bob an automatic yes? Did it take convincing?

Steve Farr: Well, September Club is our company, and we had a development meeting probably late 2022, and we were looking for some ideas for a local documentary, something that could be done here in Milwaukee. And I don't know if it was you, Michael, or someone said, , “What about Uecker?”

Michael Vollmann: Yeah, I think, , we had all talked about it at some point. I think our co-producer and editor, Matthew Prekop, he's a big baseball fan as well, and I think I had mentioned it to him, and he was the one who actually brought it up. And, , I almost felt like it was almost something that was just a dream project, and it almost seemed like an unattainable thing to do. And then when he brought it up in the September Club, Barry Pulterman, producer, and Jeremy Kuhn, producer, were very much quickly on board.

Steve Farr: I had a connection with Bob Uecker having done a PSA for ALS. I have a production company, Purple Onion. And we had done that during COVID, so I knew I could get through to him – or at least his people – and so he took the call pretty quickly. We arranged a meeting with him in Scottsdale in December of 2022. We flew down there. Four or five of us met with him. We thought it would be like an hour-long lunch, and I think it ended up being closer to four hours. And he had, at this point, he had kind of vetted us. And so I think he already had made the decision that, yeah, he wanted to work with us, but...

Michael Vollmann: It wasn't four hours because we had to convince him. It was four hours because he just...

Audrey Nowakowski: Because he had a great time?

Michael Vollmann: Yeah, we had a great time. He just kept telling us stories and we were we were like, “Try to save it for the documentary; we have to redo all these stories again.”

Audrey Nowakowski: Yeah, making notes as you're having lunch.

Steve Farr: But it was hilarious and we almost missed our flight home. But that's where it started, and shortly after that we started filming. And we ran a number of scenarios past him and probably 10, 12 things that we hoped to do over the next year or two, and he was on board with all of it. But unfortunately, fairly early on he was also diagnosed, and he let us know that there weren't many people that knew about it, and he just said he would, , continue to do what he could with us for the documentary and honor some of these things. But we weren't we weren't able to shoot everything that we wanted to, but that was fine. It was just amazing that he was still committed to doing it.

Audrey Nowakowski: Absolutely. And Uecker was diagnosed with lung cancer during the 2023 season. And as you mentioned, just a few people knew. Yelich and his coworkers in the booth knew, and you guys were part of this very small group that knew. So outside of the impact that the news of this diagnosis had on you as humans, how did it factor into the film? How did it change your original direction?

Steve Farr: Well, I think it was just that we couldn't shoot all the things that we wanted to film. , we had said, “Well, maybe we can go fishing with you out on the lake.” “Sure, yeah, we can do that,” , or we wanted to drive around Milwaukee, we wanted... Like I said, there was a handful of things, and it just got to the point where we had to cherry pick a few of them and squeeze them in when Bob was able to do it, because a lot of his spare time was having treatments or going to doctors or resting up. But again, he honored as many as he could, which was amazing.

Audrey Nowakowski: The two closest partners he worked with outside of Ueck himself were his family and the Brewers. What was it like to navigate those relationships?

Michael Vollmann: I mean it was a great experience. , one of the things that you think about when you do start a documentary is access. And , how much access are we going to get to Bob? And obviously we're going to be shooting at the stadium, and the Brewers will be involved and the family. I think, when we started it was kind of the Uecker trademark handshake deal, and we kind of started that way. And we just kind of had that trust, and he trusted us throughout the process – I think because he wanted to do it, . The Brewers were on board, and they kind of said, “Hey, if Ueck wants to do this, we're definitely going to support you all the way.” And then with the Uecker family after he passed, that's been a unique experience as well – just navigating that. And it's definitely a difficult time for them to be having to watch cuts and sort of just think about Ueck and to replay all that again. But they’ve really been supportive and encouraging, and we really appreciate it. We wouldn't have been able to make the film without all of their help.

Audrey Nowakowski: Ueck was 90 when he passed. There's so much life that he lived and also so many careers. He had multiple careers that perhaps people know him for, before associating him with baseball, especially if people are a little younger. And I think this kind of aligns with a quote you included from Bob, where he said, “Games didn't mean anything to me; they really didn't; it was after the game that was much more important.” So, does the documentary kind of have that heart of it, where it's like who he is outside of baseball?

Steve Farr: Oh yeah, I mean you'll see pretty much all aspects of Bob throughout his life. Kind of the backbone of the film is the 2023 season, and we just step away from that timeline periodically to talk about it. And it kind of ends up chronological, where it’s basically childhood and minor leagues, major leagues – moving on to being a comedian and then a broadcaster and the Hollywood Bob. But that 2023 season is what kind of holds it all together. It's also one of the things, I think, when we went into this, we knew that there would be baseball in this – because how could there not be? But there's actually kind of a lot of baseball in this, and in a great baseball movie way. If you like baseball movies, you're going to love this documentary – because the Brewers have been an excellent team over the last few years and exciting to watch. And I think there's been some disappointments, obviously, but I think people will enjoy reliving those highs and lows.

Michael Vollmann: I also want to say that baseball really was Uecker's first love. That was definitely what he always came back to, of all the things he did, he said. Everything else was for laughs – being a comedian, being on Johnny Carson, doing Major League, all that stuff. But what he really loved doing was being in the booth, being around the baseball team and the community.

Audrey Nowakowski: What first started as a four-hour lunch, I imagine, extended over the years of filming. What was it like to get to know Ueck on an intimate level like this? And is there something about him that you feel might surprise fans to learn about through this documentary?

Steve Farr: Well, I mean it was an amazing experience. They always say you don't want to meet your idols, and in this case I'm really glad I met him. I'm sorry, I get a little emotional actually.

Michael Vollmann: It's interesting how you can create a relationship with a radio personality. And for me, that's how I first got to know him was through the radio and just him always being there. People really find peace and respite from listening to baseball games and also just listening to Uecker. I think it's not unusual to feel emotional. There's a lot of people who know him more intimately than us, but I think it's definitely emotional to just know that he's not going to be back. He's been a part of our lives. Since I was born, he's just been part of my life basically.

Steve Farr: I mean the access he gave us, even if it was just in the booth, was just amazing to be around something like that – to see him do what he does so well from three feet away was something else. And it's just the way he treated the people he worked with, all his other broadcast partners and things like that. He clearly kind of ran that group, but they all had so much respect for him, and they had so much fun too. So, it's like, there was no negative. It was kind of what we hoped it would be – that he was going to be this funny, bright, energetic guy, somehow, at age 90. And he was that. Early on when we talked about doing the documentary, one of the questions was: why do you keep doing this at age 90? We wanted to kind of get into that. And very quickly he was, like, “Well, this is my happy place,” and like, “What else would I be doing?” I think he talks about it, and I think that's pretty apparent in the movie also.

Audrey Nowakowski: A true example to follow in who he was. And it's not surprising, your takeaways. But it's so nice to hear that he is what you think he is. And especially after we've been without Ueck, what do you hope people feel and take away from this documentary?

Michael Vollmann: The interesting thing about Ueck is basically that he plays everything as a joke, but he actually had a lot of perseverance. He maybe wasn't the best baseball player, but he persevered. He kept going for it. Maybe that sounds like a platitude or something. But actually I've heard that note from a few people who've seen the film. It’s interesting how he just keeps going forward, moving forward – and doesn't fall into things as much as he just works hard. He was a hard worker and disciplined, and I think we could all take something from that.

Steve Farr: I would agree.

Audrey Nowakowski: Well, for today, ahead of the Film Fest, Michael and Steve, thank you both so much for joining me today to talk about you.

Steve Farr: Thank you, Audrey, for having us.

Michael Vollmann: Thank you so much.

Xcaret Nuñez: Michael Vollmann and Steve Farr are the co-directors of the new documentary, “Ueck.” It premiered this week at the Milwaukee Film Festival, and ahead of that, they spoke with "Lake Effect"’s Audrey Nowakowski.

Xcaret Nuñez: If you go to a natural history museum almost anywhere in the world, you can expect to see dioramas displaying how animals live in the wild. Dioramas have become integral to museums, transporting visitors to unfamiliar landscapes through art and science. But did you know that it started right here in Milwaukee? The Milwaukee-style diorama revolutionized how museums curated their exhibits, and the original diorama lives on at the Milwaukee Public Museum. Dr. Ellen Censky is the president and CEO of the museum, and she joins "Lake Effect"'s Joy Powers to talk about the museum's long history with dioramas.

Joy Powers: So, when we think about dioramas, that can mean a whole wide variety of things. And yet, Milwaukee has a very interesting distinction as being kind of the birthplace of what we consider the Milwaukee-style diorama and maybe a more action-packed version of dioramas. Can you explain what the Milwaukee-style of diorama is?

Dr. Ellen Censky: Let's just go back to what is considered the first diorama, which was the Carl Akeley diorama that he did back in 1890. It was not called a diorama back then; it was a habitat group. He was the first one who actually created this 3D environment with a curved background: 3D images in the front – so those were the animals and the plants – and then it slowly fades to the background where it's a painted backdrop. So that is actually what we now consider dioramas, and he was the very first one who created this. And the reason he did it was he said, you know, we can teach better if people can see the animals in their habitat.

Joy Powers: When you go to a museum now, you really do expect to be immersed in this environment in some ways. And yet at the time, this was pretty revolutionary. What would museums at that time have looked like in the late 1800s?

Dr. Ellen Censky: There would have been cases and displays called “curiosity boxes,” and they would have just had... If you had a stuffed bird, it would have been sitting next to maybe some mammal bones or a pot. So, it would have been objects of curiosity and not with any context behind them. Or, you could have a case that displayed a bunch of birds, but none of them would have been in a natural environment. So they would not have conveyed much information beyond looking at a stuffed bird or a pot. And so, this was really revolutionary in trying to create a teaching tool that allowed you to learn more just by looking at something.

Joy Powers: I feel like now we take for granted that, if we see a bird today, there's a relatively good chance that we might be able to see what its environment looks like through a quick Google search. At the time, it would have been much more difficult for people to really get an idea of where this animal lived, how they lived. What's really amazing about the muskrat diorama at the Milwaukee Public Museum is that you get these different kinds of layers of how a muskrat would live in the landscape. Can you describe a bit what that looks like?

Dr. Ellen Censky: Yeah, I mean it's a really interesting diorama in that it is done at the surface of the water, so half of the diorama is below the surface and half is above. And he, interestingly, created this environment where you could actually see what muskrats do both above and below the water. And so, there's the entire habitat above the water and then what we normally don't see, which is what's below the water. And it's just sliced right through this habitat, so that you can see it all. So, it really was so innovative at its time.

Joy Powers: Now you mentioned, of course, dioramas have become really the heart and soul of the Milwaukee Public Museum. There is of course the muskrat diorama which is still at the museum, but there are a lot of more immersive experiences inside of that space that are also considered dioramas. When you go to the public museum, what are the different kinds of dioramas that you'll see today?

Dr. Ellen Censky: So today you will have the similar ones to the Akeley, but on a larger scale, not behind glass. So, on the third floor, if you go to Africa or if you go around the world, you'll see these open dioramas where, on either side of the walkway, you're walking through these immersive environments, but you're not right in them. Which are those with the curved backdrops where the foreground is 3D, that fades into a background that is painted. And seamlessly, that foreground fades into that background, giving you this long distance that you're looking at when it's really not long distance. So, there are lots of those. There’s also the rainforest one where you walk right in, and you are surrounded by a two-story rainforest, and so you are right inside the diorama. And then we have the little peek-through-the-window tiny dioramas where you can get a sense of cultures from around the world from the past. So, we have many different kinds of dioramas, and it is a museum filled with dioromas.

Joy Powers: Now, of course, the Milwaukee Public Museum has a new space that is currently being built, currently being put together. Can we expect to see this tradition of dioramas live on in the new space?

Dr. Ellen Censky: Of course. Yes. I mean, that is what we're known for. And so, that is something that when we were in the library – when the library was actually half museum half library – we had dioramas, and we came over here and we exploded those dioramas and did the next best thing. And so, that's what we will be doing in that new museum is those immersive environments that have... Some of them will have painted backdrops. Some will have backdrops that actually move, so more media-oriented, but they will have those 3D forefronts that fade into the background, so those similar things. But, in some, we'll use technology to create that. In others, it'll be painted. In fact, some of those backdrops are being painted as we speak. Not in the museum, but they will be in the museum.

Joy Powers: And can we expect to see the muskrats in the new museum?

Dr. Ellen Censky: Oh, the muskrat is coming. That's an easy one to move, since it's small and contained and it will be on display in the new museum in our “Nature Connector.”

Joy Powers: Very nice. Well, Ellen, thank you so much for joining us here on "Lake Effect.”

Dr. Ellen Censky: Oh, you're welcome.

Xcaret Nuñez: That was Dr. Ellen Censky, president and CEO of the Milwaukee Public Museum, home of the first Milwaukee-style diorama. She spoke with "Lake Effect"'s Joy Powers.

Xcaret Nuñez: Need some flexibility for when you listen to "Lake Effect?” Well, you can listen to us on demand. Find "Lake Effect" as a podcast wherever you like to listen, download it and enjoy on the go. In about 10 minutes, we'll learn about the return of Wisconsin's fire mascot, Torchy. But first, recycling rules can be confusing, and they can vary depending on where you live. We'll break it all down in a new “Beats Me.” That's next on "Lake Effect," on Milwaukee's NPR. You're listening to "Lake Effect" on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Xcaret Nuñez.

Xcaret Nuñez: Good recycling habits can keep almost 1.7 million tons of trash out of Wisconsin landfills each year, but it's not always clear what can and cannot go into the recycling bin. Here's the newest “Beats Me” story from environmental reporter Susan Bence.

Susan Bence: Joanne Poehlman considers herself to be a pretty good recycler. The 85-year-old is a retired Mount Mary anthropology professor and a Catholic nun, a school sister of Notre Dame. She says conserving comes naturally after living in community and taking a vow of poverty.

Joanne Poehlman: We could have invented the saying... What is it? Repair, reuse? Because that's what we did. And it was thoughtfulness about how we save, in order to share with the community.

Susan Bence: When she walks from her second-floor apartment near 91st and West Capitol Drive to the outdoor recycling bin, she's wondered about one particular plastic. It might have been a sour cream container.

Joanne Poehlman: Oh yes, I saw on the label that there was a “PP triangle 0.05.” Is this something I can recycle?

Susan Bence: Poehlman asked UWM to report on what can and cannot be recycled, especially when it comes to plastic. She submitted her “Beats Me” question, and I went looking for answers.

Rachel Rasmussen: I've never heard of 0.05.

Susan Bence: I checked in with Rachel Rasmussen. She's education coordinator for Keep Greater Milwaukee Beautiful. While Rasmuson isn't familiar with the 0.05 label, she says number five plastics can be recycled. They're used to make things like storage bins, shipping pallets and even garden tools.

Rachel Rasmussen: So, if it has the triangle symbol, sometimes it'll just say the original number, but sometimes they do put a zero in front of it. It still counts as a number five. So, we can recycle that type of plastic in curbside recycling.

Susan Bence: That's for City of Milwaukee residents. It might be different if you live in a different Wisconsin municipality. Jennifer Semrau understands how confusing it can be to sort out what to sort out. She's the State Department of Natural Resources Waste Reduction and Diversion Coordinator. It's her job to keep as much out of landfills as possible. The backbone of Wisconsin's recycling rules are written into state law.

Jennifer Semrau: So our law passed in 1990 and went into what we call full effect in 1995.

Susan Bence: Semrau says “reduce, reuse, recycle” is written into the law, and it spells out what communities must recycle.

Jennifer Semrau: Chapter 287 identifies cardboard, magazines, newspaper, and office paper, containers made out of aluminum, steel, glass, and plastics numbers 1 and 2.

Susan Bence: All of that stuff is banned from being landfilled. So why are City of Milwaukee residents asked to recycle number 5 plastics?

Jennifer Semrau: There has been an expansion in the marketplace for PP, polypropylene number five plastic. So that is a material that we're seeing more MRFs.

Susan Bence: MRF is short for a materials recovery facility. Those are the places where our recycling is sorted, bailed, and sold to companies that repurpose it. Some MRFs are public, and some are private. Every community has to follow the state law, but some MRF's go above and beyond when they have a buyer for, let's say, number 5 plastics.

Jennifer Semrau: That is a material that we're seeing more MRFs recover, even though, again, they do not have to by the law. But we've seen more of that marketplace develop.

Susan Bence: Another plastic item that doesn't have to end up in a landfill is the ubiquitous plastic bag. Semrau says they do have a market.

Jennifer Semrau: The largest buyer, I believe, is Trex company. You could look it up on their website if you wanted to find more information. They use it as a component of their plastic lumber.

Susan Bence: But she says, don't throw them into your recycling bin because when they reach a MRF...

Jennifer Semrau: They end up wrapping around the equipment that's used to separate out different recyclables and really cause maintenance issues.

Susan Bence: She suggests dropping off plastic bags at grocery and department stores that specifically collect them. Semrau has been in the waste reduction business for almost 30 years.

Jennifer Semrau: I don't think it's a perfect system, but I do know that there are success stories in Wisconsin too.

Susan Bence: While many of us wish we could recycle more, Semrau points to missed opportunities within Wisconsin's existing system. A few years ago, her team carried out a waste characterization study. Translation: crews hand-sorted through garbage being delivered to landfills. Nearly 20% were items that could have been recycled. Semrau says they would have been worth tens of millions of dollars. Susan Bence, 89.7, WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.

Xcaret Nuñez: Got a question about the environment, education, or race and ethnicity? You can submit it to our Beat reporters at wuwm.com/beatsme.

Xcaret Nuñez: We all know about Smokey Bear, the iconic mascot for wildfire prevention, but do you know about Torchy Timberloss? He's Wisconsin's very own fire mascot who recently came out of retirement. Torchy is a devilish looking flame that dates back to the 1950s. The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources says Torchy's image has evolved over the years. Nowadays, he's focused on spreading the message that not all fires are bad. Catherine Koele is a wildfire prevention specialist and Michele Witecha is a prescribed fire specialist with the Wisconsin DNR. They joined me to share Torchy's story and the benefits of prescribed fires.

Xcaret Nuñez: I’ve got to start off by saying I am absolutely obsessed with Torchy. Catherine, can you describe what Torchy looks like and introduce him to our listeners?

Catherine Koele: Well, on behalf of the entire fire program, we are all obsessed with Torchy as well, so thanks for the interest. Yeah, so Torchy Timberlost, he's kind of iconic and very unique to Wisconsin. He kind of originated in the 1950s, kind of about the same time Smokey Bearer came on the scene. Torchy himself is kind of a little cartoony flame, and that's kind of how he's looked. He has a little bit more friendly look in the ‘70s and ‘80s. And like I said, we're trying to bring him back. But obviously, with everything, there's evolution. And he's making some changes. So, can you?

Xcaret Nuñez: So, can you walk me through the evolution of Torchy's story? What was his original message or purpose, and how has that changed over the years?

Catherine Koele: So he was originated by Harry Allman. He was a draftsman for the Forest Protection headquarters in Tomahawk. So, back in the day though, Torchy was, he was not one of the good guys. He was kind of the anti-Smokey, if you will, at the time – a little evil, devilish looking creature that was a menace. Fire was bad. And at the time, it made sense because post-World War II era, the timber industry was booming, and a lot of our forces were fighting wars and were not fighting fires at the time. So, fire prevention was critically important to save the timber industry. But he made appearances here in Wisconsin and in publications and cartoons, posters, coloring books, and by 1958 the concept kind of ran its course and Torchy Timberloss kind of disappeared from some printed material at the time. But he also made a comeback in 1978 with Earl Meyer. He was an area forest ranger, then later became the fire prevention law enforcement specialist for the state. And now we have the current version, which you are seeing a little bit more today, kind of still lingering on as stickers or an old poster stacked in ranger stations across the state.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, and you walked me through a bit of his evolution. What does Torchy represent today?

Catherine Koele: Great question. So again, his original name was Torchy Timberloss. And we'd like to kind of see the Timberloss reference kind of go to the wayside. Smokey did a great job over the years. He's iconic, almost too good of a job in some respects because it did kind of deter some of the good fire in the landscape over the last several decades. And Torchy's kind of the same. So again, just more unique to Wisconsin. But we'd like to see him kind of evolve and change into representing more of the good fire.

Xcaret Nuñez: So you bring up an interesting point about Torchy's message. Michelle, I was wondering if you could tell me more about what good fire is, or prescribed fires, and why they're beneficial.

Michele Witecha: Prescribed fire is typically designed by a planned application of fire within a set perimeter for a specific reason. It removes that dead vegetation, it provides a free layer of fertilizer, because that ash is nothing but deconstructed nutrients for animals – but it's also all of those elements back in the ground to those root systems, whereas before they were just trapped in at vegetation. So, what this does is, it not only provides better nesting, foraging, and young-raising habitat for wildlife, but it also helps promote these ecological services to humans.

Xcaret Nuñez: There's also a history of this practice in Wisconsin, right?

Michele Witecha: Yeah. So, Catherine did mention there was another evolution of Torchy back in the 1970s, and around this time, the science of fire ecology was just emerging. We were beginning to discover that nuance in between the damage of wildfires and what we see as positive effects from the vegetation. So, over time we've also delved into the fire history of the Great Lakes Region And we're also acknowledging the fact that Wisconsin's fire history is really unique. It's not naturally fire-based. Our First Nation tribes that existed for thousands of years in Wisconsin were using fire as a land management tool. They would use it to promote blueberry growth in forests, because that was a huge winter staple crop for them. They would use it for attracting wildlife, for hunting. And so, they are really the curators of the land that we see today. And so, we had to really reconcile with the fact that all of this emerging science, all this tree ring research history that has showed us how often these fires occurred – we have to contend with that, in addition to the messaging that we've been putting forth all this time. And so the environmental impacts, as Catherine said, both Torchy and Smokey did a really good job – and perhaps to the point where we became very knee-jerk about fire totally. And because of that, especially in our forested areas in Wisconsin, we're seeing oak and pine, which are very fire-dependent species. In the 80 to 100 years that we've been promoting full fire suppression, we are now missing whole generations of trees from that entire era. And so, that was one of the main drivers with removing the timber loss side of it. Because we do know that prescribed fire is incredibly crucial for maintaining healthy forests and keeping invasive species out and promoting regeneration of those key tree species that we all depend on. I think Torchy has found a wonderful new niche nowadays that we're happy to promote, where he is all about burn safety. So, it is all about good fire, but we have to be strategic, we have to be planning it properly and we have to be safe when we conduct it.

Xcaret Nuñez: Thank you so much for touching on that history and that really interesting research. I'm "Lake Effect”’s Xcaret Nuñez speaking with Catherine Koele and Michele Witecha from the Wisconsin DNR about the department's revamped fire mascot named Torchy. Now that we've talked about the good kind of fires, I want to talk about the bad kind, wildfires. Catherine, can you give me a general overview of what factors cause wildfires in the first place?

Catherine Koele: Absolutely. So, the peak of Wisconsin's fire season is in the spring. So shortly after the snow cover disappears, prior to vegetation greening up is really that critical time period. That's when we see the majority of our fire starts. 98% of these fires are caused by people. And these are unplanned, human-caused fires. And as of right now we've had to date over about close to 130 wildfires, which is a more traditional fire season for us here this year. 60% of these are caused by debris burning. So folks are outside and when they have the opportunity to enjoy some beautiful weather and clean up around their yards, they're choosing to burn those materials. So obviously it's important to consider alternatives to burning that debris, or if you do choose to burn debris to get proper permits, check the fire danger and follow the rules on the permit. So a lot of these fires can be prevented.

Xcaret Nuñez: So just to clarify, is the Wisconsin DNR predicting a high fire danger this year?

Catherine Koele: Yeah, so this year, believe it or not, is actually a more traditional fire season. So, we're coming off of two years of kind of some droughty, light precipitation winters. So kind of a lack of snow. A more traditional season kind of starts in the south and moves to the north as snow cover disappears. And this is a better example of that. But yeah, so we're kind of on par for average fire numbers for this year.

Xcaret Nuñez: I really appreciate you sharing that helpful advice. Before we wrap up, I want to bring it and tie it back to Torchy. Will we start seeing more of Torchy throughout the state?

Catherine Koele: Well, if I have anything to do with it, absolutely. I just love Torchy. And it's one of those things where... I'll speak to some experience about fires outside of Wisconsin. One of the things that a lot of firefighters do is they exchange hats and pins and stickers and patches and things like that. And we just don't have that icon anymore. And we do. We provide a lot of out-of-state mobilization to support other agencies. It's kind of like our little badge of honor, I think. And I think it would be neat to be able to kind of bring that some of that back. But the move to broadening Torchy's message, I think is going to be really beneficial to everybody in the Fire Management Program.

Xcaret Nuñez: Well, I really appreciate you both sharing that history and that badge of honor. But yeah, Catherine and Michelle, thank you both so much for sharing such great information and telling me more about Torchy.

Michele Witecha: Thanks for having us.

Catherine Koele: Yeah, it was super fun. Thank you.

Xcaret Nuñez: Catherine Koele is a wildfire prevention specialist, and Michelle Witeka is a prescribed fire specialist with the Wisconsin DNR. You can hear more of this conversation at wuwm.com. Still to come, we'll learn about the documentary, “All of the Above,” which focuses on a world religions high school class. That's next on "Lake Effect," on Milwaukee's NPR.

Xcaret Nuñez: This is "Lake Effect" on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. A new documentary looks at what students with different faith backgrounds can learn from each other. The film focuses on an ambitious teacher and his students in a world religions class at Prospect High School in Mount Prospect, Illinois. It's showing at the Milwaukee Film Fest this weekend. And ahead of that, WUWM's Maayan Silver speaks with filmmaker Alison Walsh and producer Lily Qi about the project and what it's all about.

Maayan Silver: First of all, I'd just like to say that I liked your clever titling of the film, “All of the Above.” I didn't really get it until after I had finished watching the movie, but obviously this is my take: it's a reference to the multiple-choice question exams that you may have taken in high school. But also more symbolically, like, what's above – as in God, spirituality, religion? How did you guys come up with that name?

Alison Walsh: Ooh, you got it. That is exactly. We even thought about having a Scantron on our poster to make it very clear. But yeah, we had been making this film for six years. For a long time, we just called it “Teaching About Religion,” because it was very hard to sort of encompass what the film was in the title. And we workshopped the title for a couple years, and my sister is the one that came up with “All of the Above. She also was really pushing for “Tests of Faith,” but we liked “All of the Above” the best.

Maayan Silver: That's cool. Lily, did you want to weigh in on that?

Lily Qi: Did you want to weigh in on that? Yeah, and I think it starts with an “A.” It's always good to start with a film title with an “A.” It always shows up at all the film programs at the very beginning, so I'm very happy with the title.

Maayan Silver: That's cool. That's a good point, So, Alison, you are a former student in this world religions class. You were at Prospect High School in Mount Prospect, Illinois, where you filmed the documentary. And there's even a short scene at the beginning of the film where you let the class and also the film audience know that you were part of this class. How did that spur you doing this whole documentary?

Alison Walsh: Yeah, so, when I took the class when I was a senior in high school, I really hadn't learned about other religions. I didn't have any understanding or idea that I was even interested in this subject. But I was really passionate about my own Christian faith. And this class really just like blew my mind. It was such a paradigm shift. And what I found the most striking was learning about my classmates' faiths – classmates that I had been in school with for years, and I knew so little about their background and their faith. And when I learned about it, I just had these deep connections with my classmates. So that inspired me to eventually become a documentary filmmaker where every day I get to listen to different perspectives on the world. And so when I was starting to make documentaries, I just have always kept thinking about this class, and I wanted to come back. But I wanted to tell the story in the present day and see if we could capture students' experiences live and see their reactions on their faces – the “aha moments” right in-person.

Maayan Silver: Yeah, there are a lot of interfaith student relationships in this film. I think you probably made a concerted effort to include that, right?

Alison Walsh: Yeah, I mean, I think it came really naturally. Like it was a cool... I think we have a lot of interfaith relationships in our lives, but we don't talk about religion very often. So, it's not always present. And so, the students in the class, I think they discovered so much about each other's faiths and realized how much their relationship was an interfaith relationship.

Maayan Silver: And a lot of this film focuses on, of course, the teacher of the class. His name is John. I don't think I caught his last name in the film.

Alison Walsh: Camardella, but the kids call him “Cuba.” He's a cool teacher.

Maayan Silver: Cuba. Okay, gotcha. Cuba. Nice. Okay, so Mr. Camerdella, he really had a fascinating journey into world religions. His mom was a nun. His dad was a Catholic brother. And they both left the church after decades to presumably marry each other. After that, they had what the film describes as “an open-armed approach to friends and strangers.” And John describes how they sort of literally expand the table by having these large dinners and hosting people from different backgrounds at their house. So, this is sort of his origin story. What else did you learn about Cuba or Mr. Camardella from his trajectory into teaching world religions?

Lily Qi: I actually started on the film as an assistant editor. So, I actually went through a lot of footage before I started producing the film. So ,Alice and I, we really know the film pretty well. And I think, for one, I was very impressed by Cuba's openness to students from different faiths. And also, he himself really pushes himself really hard too. He's really devoted to the interfaith work. He is a Harvard scholar and he got a Master’s in Religion and Public Life from Harvard because he really wanted to bring this kind of education to different schools and work with school administrators to promote this class. So, I think for me it's really inspiring to see someone who is so passionate about what they're doing and really dedicated to bringing education, and really just fundamentally good values to students in the next generation. So, to me, that's a very surprising fact to know about Cuba. And he also was a former basketball coach. So, we also got to witness like his sporty side of it and working with the boys. Teenage boys, are not the easiest group to work with. And he was able to use his basketball experience to coach and educate teenage boys that way. So those are the things that I think were not in the film but it was present in the footage. And I'm very happy that I got to experience that. Allison, do you have anything to add?

Alison Walsh: Yeah, I mean, I would just echo that. I mean, I think you answered that really well. I've known him for a long time, first as my teacher and then we've stayed in touch and became family friends. So yeah, it was so great to get to spend a whole year filming him.

Maayan Silver: This is "Lake Effect", I'm WUWM's Maayan Silver, speaking with producers and filmmakers, Alison Walsh and Lily Qi from “All of the Above,” which is showing in the Milwaukee Film Festival. And was there something in the course of filming and creating this documentary that, like... It seems like rather a large bite to take to try to cover a world religion class with so many different kinds of religions and so many kinds of ways of practicing – and then to fit those pieces of wisdom into one film, and then also to focus on high school students who are extremely sometimes shy to talk, or they might not want to be on camera. So, was there anything that really surprised you about making this film that you weren't expecting?

Alison Walsh: Well, I love this line of questioning, because I think what the students learn is not just facts and knowledge, but also a skillset of how to move forward in the world and how to be a good neighbor and live in a pluralistic democracy. And we're not always going to know the answers, right? And I think John, the teacher, he really prides himself on... students after this class are often not going into religious studies. They're going all over into different disciplines and it's really important to have religiously literate people in our communities. So, that's what I think was so cool. And seeing the class evolve for me, from when I was a high school senior until 13 years later when I came back to see where the class is at now, that skillset is just more and more refined. So, yeah. Maybe you don't know the answer to every question, but you have the confidence to ask the question and to do so in a respectful way. And I find that incredibly profound.

Maayan Silver: Also, interrogating sources is something that can really help you. How information is distributed today, it's always a good thing to discover how to ask questions and to interrogate who's talking to you and where the information is coming from. So, those are things that even gobeyond religion. Cuba also teaches an adult world religions class, in part because he got a lot of emails from quote, “concerned parents” about what he was teaching their children. What did you learn about that over the course of producing the film?

Lily Qi: Yeah, I think from our experience, most parents were curious about what is happening in the class and that provides a window opportunity for them to, one, know about what John is teaching in the class, but two, I think a lot of people came out of the parent class feel like they are receiving the education and learning something new about their own religion or other people's religion that they previously didn't know about. So, I feel like that parent class is also an asset in the community now for the school parents to get to know what the school is teaching their kids and also learning something new. Because I think, as adults, especially after you become parents, you don't really get the opportunity to learn and have a space dedicated to getting new knowledge. So, I feel like it's a very valuable existence in the community.

Maayan Silver: Well, this film will be at the Milwaukee Film Festival. Alison Walsh and Lily Qi, thank you so much for joining me on "Lake Effect".

Alison Walsh: Thank you so much.

Lily Qi: Thank you for having us.

Xcaret Nuñez: Lily Qi is the producer of the documentary, “All of the Above.” We also heard from the filmmaker, Alison Walsh. They spoke with WUWM's Maayan Silver. The film is showing Friday and Saturday evening as part of the Milwaukee Film Festival. Milwaukee Film is a financial supporter of WUWM. That's "Lake Effect" for today. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Audrey Nowakowski, Joy Powers, and Sam Woods joined me in producing "Lake Effect" each week with help from Graham Thomas. Becky Mortenson is our executive producer, and Emily Files helps edit the show. We also heard from Jimmy Gutierrez, Maayan Silver, Eddie Morales, Susan Bence, Teran Powell, and Katherine Kokal from the WUWM news team this week. Jason Rieve, our studio engineer, Valeria Navarro Villegas is our digital operations manager, and Trapper Schoepp wrote our theme music. If you missed any of "Lake Effect" this week, you can find all of our conversations at wuwm.com. And if you'd like to take the show on the go, you can download the "Lake Effect" podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Next week, we'll continue to tell you about some of the films showing at the Milwaukee Film Fest, including one called “Powwow People,” which celebrates the modern experience of a native gathering. Thanks so much for joining us today on listener-supported 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.