Thursday 6/4/26: Mayor Johnson on housing affordability, Lake Michigan Coast Guard, Bubbler Talk

Lauri Jones: Support for WUWM Podcasts comes from Hop, Harvest, and Vine and Good Harvest Market in Pewaukee, part of one destination, combining farm to table dining, local craft beers and organic groceries under one roof. More at goodharvestmarket.com.

Joy Powers: From 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR, this is Lake Effect. I'm Joy Powers. Today we'll hear what the City of Milwaukee is doing to increase housing options and improve affordability. Then we'll meet Lake Michigan's new Coast Guard Commander and learn about preparations for the summer.

Rhianna Macon: We actually are the third busiest sector in the Coast Guard, which is pretty astounding when you think of places like San Francisco and Miami, and we're doing that all in 100 days.

Joy Powers: Plus, we'll listen back to an episode of Bubbler Talk, about what happens after zoo animals die. And we'll talk to Lake Effect producer, Xcaret Nuñez, about reporting on the piece.

Xcaret Nuñez: Sure, it's a sad topic, but it's a natural part of life and the cycle. And it was just really neat to hear how much care goes into each of the animals after its life ends.

Joy Powers: All of that is coming up on Lake Effect. This is Lake Effect from 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR. I'm Joy Powers, and thank you so much for joining us.

Joy Powers: Since late 2025, WUWM has been reporting on challenges to home ownership in Milwaukee, and we've been exploring approaches that are helping to break through those barriers. Our series, Seeking Solutions, Keys to Home Ownership is part of WUWM's broader focus on solutions journalism, reporting that looks at how to solve persistent challenges. On May 27th, WUWM and Milwaukee's Community Development Alliance held an event showcasing our Keys to Homeownership series. The event closed with a conversation with Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson. He spoke with WUWM’s Eddie Morales about what the city is doing to improve housing affordability.

Eddie Morales: You've been calling 2026 the year of housing. What does that mean to you and what work have you been doing as part of it?

Cavalier Johnson: Sure, so the year of housing is about working to make sure that we're elevating the things that we’re doing around housing in Milwaukee and working to make sure that folks in the city have access to housing that is affordable, safe, that meets their needs, some of the things were said before. It's putting a focus on some of the innovative things that we've been doing in my administration to create more housing opportunities for people in Milwaukee. I mean, there's an exhaustive list. Perhaps we'll have directed questions about those. But yeah, it's about working to make sure that we address this fundamental thing that everybody in not just our city, but everybody anywhere needs, which is access to housing, a roof over their head, because that's the source where everything begins. Everything begins at home, and we're focusing on that this year, in 2026, the year of housing.

Eddie Morales: What are some examples of those solutions? Because you've mentioned before as well that you would like to grow the population of Milwaukee. And so I think sometimes people wonder, well, what does that mean for “X” issue, whether it's traffic or when it comes to the economy. People are wondering also about, obviously, housing. So making housing more accessible, more affordable, and growing the population. How do you have a solution for that?

Cavalier Johnson: I think growing the population is a smart thing to do over time, and that's exactly what we're focused on with the policies that we've been working to implement in my administration. I'm not under the illusion that we're going to grow to a million people in one year or in one term. It's going to take time in order to do that, but there are benefits to doing that as well. When you have more people, you have a greater tax base, right? When you have more housing and more development generally, it allows you to spread the tax base amongst more units out there so that people's burden drops. When you have more people, when you have a larger population, it's harder to be looked over for certain things that tend to go to a set number of cities across the United States, whether it's New York, Chicago, or LA, or in this next category of “emerging” American cities. You think about your Atlantas, your Dalasses, places like Washington, D.C., places like that. Like, I want Milwaukee to be a part of that conversation. I don't want our city to be lost as we can need to move forward here. So I think with smart investments, that's how you ultimately get there. And housing is going to be key to that, you know?

Cavalier Johnson: I want for there to be more housing in Milwaukee. Generally, I want for there to be, yes, more affordable housing. And so we've worked with Acts Housing in the Milwaukee, you know, community land trusts, and of course the work that we're doing with Homes MKE, investing those federal dollars into city-owned, tax-forclosed properties and then working with local small developers to rehab those properties and sell them to folks at affordable rates. All that stuff is important. I want for there to be more middle-income housing. That's why we've got our workforce housing policy that we put into practice when I became mayor, because, and I'm sure there's folks here who probably have experienced the same thing, you go out to college, you get that first job, and you make one dollar, one buck more than whatever artificial threshold somebody put out there, and they think, “Oh, you're rich; you don't need any help anymore; you're done; we'll just push you off to the next category, the next tax bracket.” And the fact of the matter is that you're not. You're not! You still need help, right? You're not out of the woods yet. And you don't want for those folks to start off their career and their productive years being burdened by housing. And so we're using our policy on workforce housing to create some additional help for those folks, especially in this economy, especially in a time where affordability is an issue across the United States.

Cavalier Johnson: It's things like the backbone TID (tax incremental districts) thing that we worked on with the CDA, right? Creating more affordable housing in neighborhoods. But it's also things like creating more luxury housing too. I want housing at every single price point, because when more folks who have the ability to go into luxury housing or market rate housing, when they have the able to do that, it lessens the pressure on other folks who are trying to rise up into other housing that we have in the city. So, more housing growth is good across the board. That's good for population growth. It’s good for opportunities for people to find the housing that meets their needs where they are, and it allows for fluidity within the market, which is good.

Eddie Morales: You've mentioned some of this. I'm just curious if you could dive a little bit deeper into what other resources – especially when it comes to affordable housing – are really important to help with the sustainability, to make sure that this is an actual solution – whether it's educational resources, mental health resources? Can you speak to that?

Cavalier Johnson: Yeah, so you talking about resources as it relates to affordable housing?

Eddie Morales: Yes.

Cavalier Johnson: Yeah, I mean, there are so many great partners that are in the room now, as some of you, which you've heard from, whether it's Acts or VIA, or the Milwaukee Community Land Trust, or, again, the work that we've done investing millions and millions of dollars in affordable – I'm sorry – American Rescue Plan Act funds that were presented to us by President Joe Biden's administration, when he was in office, that we've used to invest back into the community, into those city-owned, tax-foreclosed homes to create more affordable housing opportunities here in the city. The work, again, with the CDA, our support of these projects that happen with LIHT (low-income housing tax credit program) funds in order to create more housing affordable units in the city of Milwaukee. The work that we do, you know, in our Milwaukee Public Libraries, right? We just opened the Martin Luther King Jr. Branch of the Milwaukee Library, the newest library branch to come on board right now. And much like the previous developments or redevelopments of libraries, there's affordable housing that's a component of that. We're talking about another library to replace the capital library on the northwest side that'll include in the development, you know, hundreds of units of housing as well. So we have a number of programs that are available that is helping us to build more housing.

Cavalier Johnson: But it's not just about building more housing. It's also about – and this, I think, is part of your question in terms of smart growth for the city – it's also working to make sure that we're not displacing people who presently call Milwaukee home. And that's a really important point because, to me, you can't grow to a million people, no matter how long it takes to do that, you can't do that if you're also losing people. You have to do both. You have attract, retain, and then you also have to preserve the people that you have here. And so we have long-standing programs that I support and fund in my budgets where, if there's a homeowner that's out there, and they need help fixing a critical repair on their home, well, the city is here to help you to do that so you make, so you can stay in your home, that I think is, you know, a part of the affordable housing sort of strategy to, you know, if you can afford to stay there, right? And you're not being priced out by you know other developments or by the fixes that need to happen on properties, just because that's just the nature of owning a home, then that helps folks are remaining remain in their home.

Eddie Morales: Yeah, it's definitely a multifaceted effort, especially when considering things like aging in place. I know that is a big aspect of this. So with that being said, is there anything else that you'd like to dive a little bit deeper into, just any last messages before we wrap up here?

Cavalier Johnson: Well, you mentioned aging in place, so I can't leave without talking about the really important work that we did in my administration on our Housing Element Plan, which, again: smart growth for the future, laying the groundwork for growth in the city of Milwaukee as we continue to move into the future years, working to make sure that our zoning laws are updated. We haven't had, before, you know, our efforts, a full-scale zoning update in Milwaukee in over 20 years, like, over two mayors ago. And you know how long we keep mayors around here, right? So that's a while. So we were able to do that. And a big part of that was advancing, along with the Common Council, a file that allowed us to reestablish the use of accessory dwelling units, or ADUs, in the city of Milwaukee. Those help folks to age in place, right? If you have a senior in your family who's getting up in age that you don't want to send elsewhere, they still have some ability to live independently, well, you can have them live on site with you in their own space, right? If you've got a young person who's growing up like I do at home – I’ve got a 15 year old; he'll be 16 later this year – sometimes you want to kick them out. Well, you could kick them out, but they can still stay on site, right? I don't want to see your junk, right? I don’t want to see all the stuff you got in your room. Keep that to yourself in your ADU. Maybe you want some passive income, right? You know, that's an opportunity along with ADUs as well. So there are plenty of opportunities to do that.

Cavalier Johnson: And I mean, Dee mentioned John Johnson's reporting. This is my, you know, final point on this is that, or maybe second to final point. So John talked about in a previous report the Washington Heights neighborhood, not terribly far from where we are, that is a very desirable neighborhood in Milwaukee. But because of the stable decline that we've had in terms of people not having as many children as they once did, it's still a desirable place. Folks want to live there. Folks want to move there. The problem that we have is capacity, right? There's still only so many houses. But ADUs would allow for a neighborhood as desirable as Washington Heights to take on more residents in that neighborhood. And those folks are then able to go out and support businesses that are on the ground, whether on North Avenue or, and the like. You can see the same thing taking shape in other neighborhoods across Milwaukee.

Cavalier Johnson: And then this is the final point, so because you asked about traffic impacts as well. I want to make sure that people are able to get from point A to point B in the city of Milwaukee and do it as safely as they possibly can. And we're making investments in the city in order to make that happens, right? And there are some investments that we've made that people don't necessarily care for in terms of their aesthetic appeal. I have the same sort of concern. However, my responsibility as mayor is to work to make sure that people are able to get, again, from A to B in a safe manner as possible, until such time as people decide that they're not going to drive recklessly on the streets and those things stay in place, so that kids and families can go to the park, or go to school, or go to work, or go wherever in a save manner. So traffic, I think, overall is improving in Milwaukee.

Cavalier Johnson: And not everybody, I think, as we move into the future, is necessarily going to use a car in order to get from point A to point B. That's part of the reason why we're building an expansive bike network, protected bike network in the city of Milwaukee, so that folks can get from where they're going, especially kids, right? When I was a kid, we rode our bikes forever in Milwaukee, all across the city. I want kids to have that same freedom, that same flexibility. Over the course of the last couple of days, Memorial Day weekend, I was teaching my daughters how to ride their bikes. They're late bloomers, I guess. But I was teaching them how to ride their, ride their bike.s And I want my daughters, I want my kids and everybody's kids to be able to ride as freely as we did in as safe a manner as possible. And so I think that we're addressing all of those things in this evening.

Joy Powers: That was Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson, speaking with WUWM's Eddie Morales. Their conversation was recorded on May 27th at WUWM's event highlighting our “Seeking Solutions: Keys to Homeownership” series. You can listen to the full event, which included conversations with local organizations at wuwm.com. That's also where you can find the reporting in our housing series.

Joy Powers: Lake Effect is available as a podcast, so you can listen when you like. Find it wherever you get your podcasts, then subscribe, download, and listen on demand. In about 15 minutes, we'll continue our celebration of Bubbler Talk's 10th anniversary by listening back to a favorite episode and hearing how it came together. But first, we learn what goes into Coast Guard operations on Lake Michigan from the sector's new commander. That's coming up on Lake Effect, on 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.

Joy Powers: You're listening to Lake Effect on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Joy Powers. Captain Rhianna Macon is Lake Michigan's new Coast Guard commander. After more than two decades of service and at the brink of retirement, she says it's a job she just couldn't turn down. As sector commander, Macon is based in Milwaukee and in charge of operations in the four states surrounding Lake Michigan: Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. To learn more, Lake Effect's Xcaret Nuñez speaks with Macon about what inspired her to join the Coast Guard and what her job entails.

Xcaret Nuñez: I'm wondering what inspired you to join the U.S. Coast Guard and what role water has played in your life.

Rhianna Macon: I grew up in Hawaii, born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii. Growing up in a place like Hawaii, I think there's so many benefits. It's a magical place. And one of the reasons, I think, is the connection to the water. It's always been a theme for me, wanting to give back to nature and protecting that nature. And the other thing about Hawaii is our connectedness to the environment, and how we view ourselves as a community, and the responsibility we have, not only to each other in the community, but also to the environment. So that was very important for me growing up. Initially, I was very drawn to marine biology, but ultimately, I kind of realized that maybe having a more broader approach to something like environmental science. So a bunch of different things happening, but one of the big catalysts was 9/11. And I very much felt a call to service.

Rhianna Macon: And I was very fortunate enough to meet a couple of junior officers who were assigned to a local Coast Guard unit. I was living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the time, and they introduced me to the Coast Guard. I had seen some news stories of Coast Guard in Hawaii. There was a big case going on at the same time. So, I just feel like the universe was colluding for me to join the Coast Guards. But what attracted me to the Coast Guard is, we have a Marine Environmental Response mission. So that was my initial draw and the fact that I could give back to my country, be an active duty military member, but serve in the communities that you live in. And that was very attractive to me and our mission of protecting people and protecting the environment. So, that was what drew me to the Coast Guard. And at the time, the Coast Guard was going through a major reorganization based off of 9/11, and we had just become part of the Department of Homeland Security. And that opportunity provided me the ability to get into search and rescue, which really wasn't on my radar. But I fell in love with it, and it has become one of my primary roles, and I've been very fortunate to be able to do search and rescues and environmental response throughout my entire career. And it's all culminated with me coming to this position here, based out of Milwaukee.

Xcaret Nuñez: And on that note, prior to coming to Milwaukee, you were previously working for the US Coast Guard in Hawaii.

Rhianna Macon: Yes.

Xcaret Nuñez: How did the opportunity to become the Coast Guard commander of Sector Lake Michigan come about, and why did you decide to take on the role?

Rhianna Macon: One of the assignments I had was as an assignment officer, so basically placing people in jobs. And I learned about Sector Lake Michigan through that job and just heard, overwhelmingly, “Thank you so much for this assignment. This is the best assignment I've had. It's a wonderful place to live. It has all of the things I'm looking for in terms of Coast Guard profession, plus my family.” So I was like, huh, okay, I really need to keep that in my back pocket. But Great Lakes, it wasn't initially on my radar, but the opportunity came up and I did put it down, because I was, like, you know what? I know that people enjoy living and working on Lake Michigan and my husband said, yeah, why not? And so we said yes, and that's how I ended up here in Milwaukee.

Xcaret Nuñez: So now that you've been here almost a year now, and you're the new Coast Guard leader of the Lake Michigan sector, what does your role entail? Like, I can imagine you wear a lot of different hats.

Rhianna Macon: We generally say Sector Commander wears five hats, and those are based primarily on the authorities of the Sector Commanders. So, for search and rescue, SAR Mission Coordinator, so overseeing all of the Coast Guard search and rescue across Lake Michigan. And we don't do that alone. I always say search and rescue is a team effort, so we work very closely with all of our local and state partners. Another unique aspect of Lake Michigan is it covers four states. So, again, just from, you know, it's very vast. And fostering partnerships is very important, and when it comes to things like search and rescue, it is critical. Also Captain of the Port, so kind of maintaining that maritime transportation system, ensuring that it's safe, that it is operational, that places like Milwaukee and the Port of Milwaukee can do all the very important and wonderful things that they do from a commerce perspective.

Rhianna Macon: And then I'm also on the facility security side, making sure that in addition to the safe operations, they're secure as well. And then federal on-scene coordinator, which is the marine environmental response element that I was referring to earlier. So, if there is an oil spill or a hazardous substance released on the maritime environment, that, again, we're working with partners to ensure that it's being addressed. So we're responding to it. We're cleaning it up, but also, we're preventing it from happening in the first place. So a lot of work not just within the federal government, but with other entities like the EPA, which we share that responsibility with on the inland side, but with the state and local partners. So everything we do is really critical from a partnership perspective.

Xcaret Nuñez: I'm Lake Effect’s Xcaret Nuñez speaking with Captain Rihanna Macon about her new role as the Coast Guard Commander of the Lake Michigan Sector. So we kind of touched on this already, but having only worked with coastal and oceanic waters throughout your career, how has adjusting to the freshwater environment and weather challenged you?

Rhianna Macon: From a search and rescue perspective, the tools that we use to conduct our planning. So we have some very sophisticated software that we use. So when we're searching for an object on the surface of the water, which is what our search and rescue is focused on, how do surface currents and wind affect that search object? And those factors are different here in the Great Lakes than on the coastal ocean or open ocean environment. And then how things, whether it is a person in the water or from a marine environmental response perspective, if we're looking at oil or a hazardous substance, how they're interacting with the marine environment is different from a freshwater perspective than a saltwater. So those are all things we need to take into consideration that I haven't had to do up until this point.

Rhianna Macon: And then, obviously, the most obvious thing, I think, is the winter time and the fact that we have a lot of frozen or hard water and how that affects our operations. And so we have to switch gears. And so maybe from a very busy summer, we actually are the third busiest sector in the Coast Guard, which is pretty astounding when you think of places like San Francisco and Miami. And we're doing that all in 100 days, basically. So between Memorial Day and Labor Day, that is when everyone is out enjoying the weather, enjoying the water. So it's very intense, very intense. But it doesn't mean that search and rescue stops in the wintertime. It just changes. And so maybe we don't have that volume, but the complexity definitely increases.

Rhianna Macon: And so we actually train to do ice rescue, which is a much higher risk for our folks. In addition to everyone that's out, whether you're ice fishing or you're going out and just, again, recreating, it's important that we are able to safely conduct search and rescue, because it just doesn't stop. And so, wearing the appropriate gear, right? And also using different techniques in extreme cold environments. And one of the differences with ice rescue is you expect to fall into the water, or get into the water, and so we have to be trained on how to anticipate and operate in that type of environment. Techniques on how you would recover a person in the water are very different, and then, obviously, time. Time's always a critical factor, but it becomes an even more critical factor with the extreme cold. So that's been a new experience for me. And it's been fascinating. Like we have a training that we actually get all dressed out in our gear. We actually have to jump into, you know, they cut a hole in the ice and you jump in the water. You have to know what it's like. And we train our crews to be able to work in those extreme environments. So.

Xcaret Nuñez: What was it like your first winter here in Wisconsin, like navigating those frozen waterways?

Rhianna Macon: It was very cold. So it was a great introduction. I got to go through the ice rescue course and then also understand what people do on the ice. Like, that's new to me, you know? So ice fishing, learning about surfing, Sheboygan, Malibu of the Midwest. I didn't know that. But there's just so many different things that people are doing. I love that people don't let the elements stop them from getting out, but to do that safely. And then on the commerce end, right? So the ice breaking, working with our district, which is based out of Cleveland, Ohio, to facilitate ice breaking so that commercial vessels can continue to operate. So Green Bay, for example, we have ice breakers that ensure that we're working to get those vessels into the Port of Green Bay.

Rhianna Macon: When we say ice breaking, the ice breakers, the cutters are actually going through and physically using the momentum of the ship to break the ice and keep a lane of transit open for a laker to get through or a tugging barge to get though. And it's very challenging, because this is another thing: I've learned so much about ice. Those lanes are hard to keep open for a significant period of time long enough for a transit of one of these larger ships. And so that, again, is a critical element. Again, we have different mechanisms to prioritize ports and cargo, but it is a challenge, just because we are also working on building up our ice breaking capability because we recognize that that's very critical to ensuring that commerce is flowing all year round.

Xcaret Nuñez: Well, now to move on to the summertime, since it's right around the corner, I want to ask you what our operation is going to look like. And you mentioned earlier, it's 100 days of busyness.

Rhianna Macon: Yes. Yes, it is. It's very intense. I think, this summer, what is adding a little bit more excitement is America's 250th birthday. And so that adds another level, I think, to what we'll see. We anticipate a little bit extra people out on the water, especially for 4th of July. We're working, again, very closely with partners to ensure that we have what we need to anticipate what that extra might look like. We also focus on... Another big element is illegal charters. So not everyone owns a boat, and you have the opportunity to charter a boat, but there are laws and regulations in place for how you go about chartering a boat. Not everyone is really well-versed in that. And so knowing whether or not the person you are chartering about from is doing it legally, we have found, can contribute to unsafe conditions on the water. So we do have a campaign that we do throughout the course of the summer. It's primarily focused in the southern part of the lake, Chicago and somewhat in Milwaukee, just because those are the largest populations, but making sure that people are operating legally, and that the public understands what the difference when you charter someone who is operating legally, so education and then holding people accountable if they are illegally offering these charters.

Xcaret Nuñez: Well, I really appreciate you sharing all of this incredible information for our listeners. Thank you again for taking the time to share your work with me. I really, appreciate your time.

Rhianna Macon: Oh, thanks for having me, this was wonderful.

Joy Powers: Captain Rhianna Macon is the U.S. Coast Guard Commander of Sector Lake, Michigan. She spoke with Lake Effect's Xcaret Nuñez. You can hear a longer version of this conversation at wuwm.com.

Joy Powers: To celebrate 10 years of our Bubbler Talk series, we're revisiting a favorite episode and getting a peek behind the scenes of how Bubbler Talk stories come together. That's next on Lake Effect, on 89.7 WUWM. Milwaukee's NPR.

Michelle Maternowski: This is Lake Effect on 89.7. WUWM is celebrating 10 years of Bubbler Talk. If Bubbler Talk was a person, they would be in fifth grade. This is our series that puts your curiosity front and center. What have you always wanted to know about the Milwaukee area's people, places, or culture? And boy, do you all have questions. Over the years, we've received thousands of inquiries helping us report out hundreds of deep dives into Milwaukee history and culture. I'm Michelle Maternowski, WUWM's audience innovation manager. I helped get Bubbler Talk off the ground in 2016, introducing the idea of engagement journalism to our team. And to celebrate Bubbler Talk's 10th anniversary, we are doing something a little bit different this season. For the podcast, we're listening to some of our favorite episodes, and I'm chatting with the WUWM reporters and producers who created them. Today we're listening to a story about, well, dead zoo animals with Lake Effect Producer Xcaret Nuñez. Hello Xcaret.

Xcaret Nuñez: Hey Michelle.

Michelle Maternowski: So we're going to listen to your story and then we will discuss.

Xcaret Nuñez: Sounds good.

Bubbler Talk Narrator: Bubbler Talk, quenching Milwaukee's thirst for knowledge.

Xcaret Nuñez: I'm WUWM's Xcaret Nuñez.

Milwaukee County Zoo Visitor: Did you see that?

Xcaret Nuñez: Every day, thousands of people visit the Milwaukee County Zoo to see the animals they love. Whether it's the adorable otters, roaring tigers, or giant elephants, these animals live their lives on display. But most of us don't know what happens after they die. That prompted Bubbler Talk listener Terry Puhek-Sandberg to ask...

Terry Puhek-Sandberg: What happens to the bodies of the animals that die at the Milwaukee County Zoo?

Xcaret Nuñez: To find out, I took a trip to the zoo to meet Tim Wild, the zoo's large mammal curator.

Tim Wild: Well, the first thing we do is we call the vet staff. They come down, they confirm everything that we know.

Xcaret Nuñez: He says every animal that meets its end at the zoo is required to get a necropsy. Necropsy is just a fancy word for animal autopsy. And the smallest to biggest creatures you can think of get one, from starfish to giraffes. They're transported to the UW Madison School of Veterinary Medicine.

David Gasper: This is our necropsy facility. As you can hear with the echo, it's cavernous like a gymnasium.

Xcaret Nuñez: That's David Gasper. He's a veterinary anatomic pathologist who performs necropsies on zoo animals from across Wisconsin. He searches for clues about the animal's health, a sort of disease detective.

David Gasper: So we do a complete external physical exam, just like your veterinarian would when you bring your dog in, head to tail. So everything gets measured and described. And then we'll do an internal examination.

Xcaret Nuñez: Next, they preserve parts of the animals on slides to get a closer look.

David Gasper: We try to match up what we've found. And every one of those changes, whether it's normal or abnormal, it could be an age-related change or it could a tumor, it could an abscess. All those things we look at under the microscope, this giant microscope sitting next to us is where I spend three or four times as much time as I do doing the necropsies.

Xcaret Nuñez: Gaspar says what veterinary pathologists find can be used to improve the care of living animals both in the zoo and in the wild. After the necropsy is done, Gaspar said there are four different ways an animal's remains can be disposed of. There's cremation, burial on zoo grounds, composting, and something called alkaline digestion. A quick warning that this next part is a bit graphic.

David Gasper: Alkaline digestion is a process where we put the remains into a lye solution under high pressure and it dissolves pretty much everything except the bones. And the bones at the end of the day are basically dust, essentially a giant instant pot with lye.

Xcaret Nuñez: Gaspar says the digester is used in particular to destroy things like an elephant's ivory tusks or a tiger's teeth, which poachers might try to find. The Milwaukee County Zoo also doesn't publicly disclose burial sites to prevent poaching. The zoo doesn't hold memorial services for the animals. But Gaspar said they're still mourned. He says he creates keepsakes for zookeepers by taking paw or hoof prints of nearly every animal that comes for a necropsy.

Bubbler Talk Narrator: The human-animal bond is something that deeply affects everyone. They're taken care of in the same capacity with the same concern as I would my dog or my cat. And so, these are important things to give back.

Xcaret Nuñez: Tim Wild with the Milwaukee County Zoo says an animal's remains continue educating people.

Tim Wild: The UW Zoological Museum takes a lot of the skeletons for their collection for educational reasons there. We might bring horns or antlers or part of the hides back. There's a lot samples that might go to researchers throughout the country. So there's lots of different ways that that animal can continue to help educate, not just us, but people all over.

Xcaret Nuñez: Bubbler talk listener Terry Puhek-Sandberg says she's surprised to learn about all the work that happens after an animal dies at the zoo.

Terry Puhek-Sandberg: I got far more information than I ever thought was going to be possible. Like I said, I thought it was just, you know, put them out of truck and off they go somewhere. I had no idea. There were all those different ways. I had no idea about the necropsy. No concept.

Xcaret Nuñez: So the next time you go to the zoo, take a moment to appreciate not just the living animals in front of you, but all that happens behind the scenes when they're gone.

Michelle Maternowski: That's such a nice story on such a morbid topic. I feel like your voice is so, like, pleasant to listen to that you could deliver me really bad news, and I’d be like, “You sound so nice.” Okay, so listening to this story, I feel like I know you, the person, for your love of animals, especially birds and your dog Benny. So what attracted you to this topic?

Xcaret Nuñez: Okay, so I read this question and I was like, “That makes so much sense.” Like, I want to know how elephants are buried, because I don't think it's morbid. I think it more so comes from a place of curiosity and caring about the cool animals that you see at the zoo, and you want to learn more about them. And yeah, I don't know. I think I've always just... That’s why I'm in journalism. I'm a nosy person.

Michelle Maternowski: The one part of all like the different ways that they dispose of the bodies reminded me of Breaking Bad.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah? Say more.

Michelle Maternowski: Like, putting the body in like a tub of lye to get rid of the... Like, it's very, like, ooh...

Xcaret Nuñez: I've never seen Breaking Bad, so can't relate to that, but it was pretty wild to see the digesters.

Michelle Maternowski: Yeah, well, and the how open the zoo and the Wisconsin veterinary diagnostic lab were to talk to you about this topic and kind of like open up their doors and let you in and then, by proxy, let us all in to see the lab and the digester and stuff. What was it like being in that space?

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, it was really incredible. Honestly, I reflect on it, almost as like a highlight of my career so far. David Gasper, the anatomic pathologist that I spoke to, he was just so open and excited and proud to share the work he and his students and pathologists do every day, truly, as he should be. And you know, sure, it's a sad topic, but it's a natural part of life and the cycle. And it was just really neat to hear how much care goes into each of the animals after its life ends and how it goes on to support research and educating people. Yeah, I don't know, just like being in the space itself, it was like, yeah, they weren't shy. Like, why should they be shy of showing you, showing people how much they love and care for the animals through their entire life cycle, right?

Michelle Maternowski: Yeah, it's so sweet that they do like the paw prints for the zookeepers. I think it's a nice little... Like, I'm sure the zoo keepers are grieving these animals like we do for our own pets that have like a nice, little memory of them.

Xcaret Nuñez: Absolutely. And that's something that he talked about a lot himself is just, like, you know, those zookeepers spend so much time with them throughout, you know, maybe half of their life or a part of their life. But they were the ones that fed them every day, cared for them every day, so of course they're definitely mourned.

Michelle Maternowski: Well now kind of switching topic to some other Bubbler Talks that you've done, because what we do here at WUWM is when someone starts as a new producer or reporter, we kind of just throw you right into the Bubbler Talk mix, and hopefully this is a good thing for people to be like... “Welcome, now do a Bubbler Talk.” And I feel like it was just yesterday when you were preparing to meet Ringo at the beach. And before we get into like, who was Ringo, and what was your story that you did, was that type of reporting, like the type of reporting we do with Bubbler Talk, where we answer listener questions and we bring them along on the reporting, was something new to you when you started at WUWM?

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, I mean first I had no idea what the heck a bubbler was.

Michelle Maternowski: Did anyone explain it to you?

Xcaret Nuñez: I mean, I looked at the little fountain sprouting water logo and I'm like, “Uhh, okay.” And then my first assignment being like, “Okay, well now you're a producer, and you pitch stories for a show, you have to come up with a monthly segment, and we have this thing called Bubbler Talk, and your story is due in like a month, and I was like, “Okay, is this initiation for WUWM?” But honestly, I wouldn't want it to have started any other way. But yeah, I feel like doing Bubbler Talk and exploring Bubbler Talk made me fall in love even more with what I do. It's just so really special to be able to experience something through someone else's eyes that I really love. But yeah, it definitely gave me a good intro into Milwaukee. With Ringo, you were asking me, like, going into how the community loves its local legends. So getting to know who the heck is Ringo, I wanted to figure out like, yeah, I want to find a missing man for my first story. That sounds cool. And then going out to the beach after it just snowed, like, “Huh? It snows at the beach. I'm from Arizonal. What? This is not normal. And people still hang out at the beach when it's cold?” And then I interviewed someone at a bar, and I never thought I would do that. And people bring babies to bars. So yeah, it was a great intro into Milwaukee and Wisconsin culture.

Michelle Maternowski: It was like, “Here is Milwaukee in a day for you.”

Xcaret Nuñez: It was incredible. I loved it.

Michelle Maternowski: Okay, so I guess to back up a little bit, someone reached out to Bubbler Talk because Ringo... He just goes by Ringo, right? He's seen at Bradford Beach on the East Side a lot. And people in this one one were like, “I haven't seen him in a while. Where did he go?” Do you remember how he reacted when you're like, “Uh, hi. I'm calling to interview you, beacause someone's wondering where you are.”

Xcaret Nuñez: It was just like, “Okay, I took this on,” and I'm like, “How the heck am I going to approach this?” It's kind of like when your best friend is like, “I'm into a dude,” or something and you want to find out everything about him. It was kind of that. But I didn't know how to go about finding who this guy was because I asked other people around the office, like, “Have you ever heard this name before?” And in this case, the woman who asked the question, I think, she asked it like two years ago before I'd even started here, and she never responded. So I never got in touch with the Bubbler Talk question-asker. So I did a lot of Googling and probably went on like the 10th Google tab, you know? Deep in the search results. And I originally found him through an old art exhibit flyer. And I reached out to the owner of the art gallery and was like, “Hey, are you still, you know, are still in charge of the art gallery?” and, “Would you know who Ringo is from forever ago?”

Xcaret Nuñez: And she got back to me within like 15 minutes, which is wild. Never happens. And she was like, “I just spoke with him yesterday and he gave me his phone number.” And when I called him, I, you know, told him that people have been wondering where he's at. He's like, still at the beach. He's just like, “Um, I've been at the beach. I'm actually here right now. I'm listening to Taylor Swift.” And I was like, “Okay, cool.” And then he proceeded to tell me about how he got the name Ringo. And it's because his nose looks like Ringo Starr's nose. And yeah, he was just so chill about it, and proceeded to tell me like, “Yeah, I'm here at the beach every day. I bike from North Avenue. I stop at McDonald's, then I go to the beach, and then I hang out at Whole Foods. Like he gave me his whole schedule, his whole rundown. And I'm like, “I cannot wait to talk with this guy.” So yeah, we just kind of set up a date. He's going to be at the beach every day, and I reached out to him the day after it snowed. And I'm like, “Hey, it just snowed. It's really cold out, are you sure you still want to meet?” And he's like, “Yeah, I'll be right there at the bench. I'll see you there.”

Michelle Maternowski: That's so sweet. Okay, you kind of alluded to this before, but sometimes we start looking into a Bubbler Talk story, and we can't actually find the answer to the question. But that's okay. Like, that happened with you when you were doing the story on the colorful wooden birds on the Oak Leaf Trail. And even though you weren't able to find the artist who made them, you still did a story about your search. So can you share why you decide dto continue to do this story even though the artist remained a mystery?

Xcaret Nuñez: Good question, Michelle. I totally almost didn't. I thought that story was a total bust. And I told my editor, Emily, “I was like, let's wrap it up, call it quits. I need to move on to another one.” Like, I was already starting research on a different Bubbler Talk. And she was the one that kind of encouraged me, or she did encourage me to keep going, as she always does. She said like, “It'd be really interesting to walk people through the reporting process and the fact that sometimes mysteries aren't meant to be solved, and sometimes they can't be solved.” And it was really interesting because I felt like, “Oh my gosh,” because I was going to meet the question-asker at the park, at Hart Park. And I was like, “I'm about to let this woman down and let her know that this thing I've been working on for a month, I know nothing about.” Like, I literally can't find... And it was amazing because I shared everything with her and, at the end of the day, she told me, “You know what, I'd rather it stay a mystery.” Because when I started telling her about people on Reddit or people reaching out being like, “Oh, I love seeing these wooden birds,” and, you know, her sharing her fascination love with me, you know? Maybe that's part of the charm is that we don't know who's behind these birds. But yeah, so I guess not every mystery is meant to be solved, but to be honest, if the artist is listening to this, please send me a wooden bird.

Michelle Maternowski: I have news to announce.

Xcaret Nuñez: What?

Michelle Maternowski: I was going to pretend I'm the artist.

Xcaret Nuñez: Oh my gosh.

Michelle Maternowski: I have one of those wooden birds over by my house, because I live close to the Oak Leaf Trail. So whenever I pass by it, I like think of you and the story. So it lives on in other ways. Or maybe, like, I kind of like the idea that maybe there's multiple people making the birds, and the one artist inspired some other people to add their own. So yeah.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, I can't believe I found another person in Madison who creates bird art as well, but like in a different capacity, and how she described it as, like, Milwaukee's Banksy, kind of.

Michelle Maternowski: Okay, if you could submit a question to Bubbler Talk, what would your question be?

Xcaret Nuñez: Okay, so I think about this all the time. I sincerely do. And I should probably start a notes page in my Notes app about it, because it'll just come up in conversation. Or I'm just like, you know, in the car or walking around, and I'll think about it and I should write it down. But I've narrowed it down to three. Can I tell you my three?

Michelle Maternowski: Yes, absolutely.

Xcaret Nuñez: All right, so anyone listening, feel free to ask them so I can solve them, selfishly. Thank you. So my first one, I tell this one to Emily all the time: what's the origin of the Tosa turkeys?

Michelle Maternowski: Is it me?

Xcaret Nuñez: It's probably Michelle, cause she's feeding them. Okay, second, what's the history behind the cinemas under the Neighborhood Theater Group, that are owned by the Neighborhood Theater Group? So that's the Times Cinema, the Rosebud Cinema, and The Avalon in Bay View. I want to know the history of each of those cinemas: like, what were they before? How long have they been there? I'm sure I could do some research on it, but what would be the fun in that?

Michelle Maternowski: It would be more fun if someone submitted it as a question.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yes, and I want to look into the history of them. All right, so my last one: where do Wisconsin accents stem from and are they going away?

Michelle Maternowski: Oh, we did do a Bubbler Talk a long time ago about Wisconsin accents, but not that extra, like, is it going away?

Xcaret Nuñez: Oh, okay, yeah.

Michelle Maternowski: We have a story for you to listen to. I love that you have these questions that you think about. You're just so curious.

Xcaret Nuñez: I'll have to listen that Bubbler Talk, because, yeah, coming here, I don't think I ever heard a Wisconsin accent. Maybe I have, but not so concentrated.

Michelle Maternowski: Well, you’re in Wisconsin, so. Oh, even the way I said Wisconsin.

Xcaret Nuñez: And like, hearing someone say the word “bag” for the first time.

Michelle Maternowski: Bag.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, like, I don't know. I just wanted to know a little bit of the history, maybe.

Michelle Maternowski: One day you will start adopting some of the Wisconsin accent.

Xcaret Nuñez: That would be very interesting.

Michelle Maternowski: Well, Xcaret, thank you so much for joining me to celebrate Bubbler Talk's 10th anniversary. I have one last request for you: can you help me thank our listeners who've submitted so many great questions over the years?

Xcaret Nuñez: Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for making my job so much fun and so incredible. And I love getting to meet you and answering your really cool and curious questions, so please ask us more

Michelle Maternowski: So to become Xcaret’s best friend on a story, you can send your questions to us at wuwm.com/bubblertalk, and you can also subscribe to the Bubbler Talk podcast We'll keep listening to some of our favorite episodes for this 10th anniversary season.

Joy Powers: And that wraps up today's show. If you missed any of Lake Effect this week, you can find all of our conversations at wuwm.com. If you'd like to take the show on the go, you can download the Lake Effect podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Tomorrow on Lake Effect, our series on Milwaukee socialist mayors explores the legacy of longtime mayor Daniel Hoan. Thanks so much for joining us, right here on listener-supported 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.