A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Ali G is returning to the big screen.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ALI G: WHO IZ I?")
SACHA BARON COHEN: (As Ali G) Yo. It's me, Ali G. I's been gone for 20 years, chilling. And in that time, the world went to crap. There was COVID, wars and Ed Sheeran.
MARTÍNEZ: The movie is called "Ali G: Who Iz I?" The controversial character stereotypes Black hip-hop culture and is played by a white guy, Sacha Baron Cohen. Ali G made his TV debut back in the late '90s.
BARON COHEN: And the idea was to have the biggest idiot in the world interview experts, and that juxtaposition would be amusing.
MARTÍNEZ: His interview partners had no idea they were talking to an actor. Baron Cohen says he always meant for the Ali G character to parody the cultural appropriation he saw in British hip-hop. But he's been called a racist for his portrayal. There have been even calls to boycott the movie. Now, Baron Cohen expected some backlash. However, he says, there's a lot more to the story.
BARON COHEN: When I started doing Ali G, I kept myself completely hidden. Nobody knew what my face looked like for the first, you know, six or seven years. I'd never given an interview. I'd never explained that he was a white cultural appropriator. What is happening now, the last few years, is there are organized online campaigns that are disingenuous. The people that are orchestrating it have absolutely no interest in any issues of racism or racial equality, right? So there is the targeting of certain people that's happening online. So I think you have to look at this and go, hold on, there's been no issue with this character for 20 years. This is a fundamentally anti-racist movie.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, Time magazine recently published a piece you wrote titled "Why Satire Is No Laughing Matter." What were you trying to explain with that?
BARON COHEN: I was trying to explain why I do what I do. I mean, these movies are the hardest movies possible to make. We have three-time Oscar winner Rob Legato. He worked on "Titanic," worked on all of Scorsese's movies. He's like, this is the hardest movie that's ever been made.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
BARON COHEN: And for a lot of time, I asked myself, why are we doing this? You know, there have been times I've had to wear a bulletproof vest to go and shoot a scene.
MARTÍNEZ: I don't mean to laugh. I'm sorry, but it's hilarious.
BARON COHEN: You can, though, because it's absurd. It's ludicrous, actually.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
BARON COHEN: So the reason I wrote the article is to explain, you know, why do I take the risks that I do? It's because I would love the world to be a more tolerant place. And I'm really worried about the extremism on both sides. I'm really worried about the misinformation and lies. And I'm worried about the threats to our pluralistic democracies.
MARTÍNEZ: When you're in character and convincing people to progressively do worse and worse things, I mean, what's going on? I mean, just let them go and just see how far it goes?
BARON COHEN: Well, the end of the movie, the last 30 minutes of the movie are an action film. Now, we're using real people. They don't realize they're in an action film. But they, in a traditional action film, would be the baddies. They kidnap the girl, the love interest. But we're carrying out something called the Milgram experiment, which for those people who didn't do psych at university, was an experiment that a professor called Stanley Milgram came up with post-World War II to investigate how educated Germans and Europeans carried out mass murder.
And the interpretation of it was that it was a discussion of authority and how people would just follow authority figures. We worked with the new expert on the Milgram experiment, Professor Haslam. And his interpretation was that this was about identification with a noble cause. And we are now in this world of virtuous violence, where violence is seen as legitimate because it's furthering a seemingly ethical cause.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ALI G: WHO IZ I?")
BARON COHEN: (As character) Do not be fooled. These immigrants are not coming here to mow your lawn, trim your trees, rake your leaves, clean your house, care for your babies, your parents, bus your tables, wash your cars, pick fruits and vegetables in the fields, clean your hotel rooms, schools, offices, hospitals, paint your houses, build your fences, operate slaughterhouses, install your roofs, drywall plumbing or electric. They are coming to kill you.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Hell yeah, man.
BARON COHEN: Could they be turned into terrorists in a matter of hours? And you'll have to see the movie to find out.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, because that last scene, it made me think of the start of the movie, where you see a quote from Voltaire, the French philosopher and writer. And the quote is, those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. And you've seen that firsthand with not just Ali G but other characters that you have played in the past. I mean, does it make you lose faith in humanity?
BARON COHEN: I have incredible faith in humanity. I really do. I remember listening to an interview with a archaeologist who specialized in analyzing why corpses were killed, whether they were murdered or what the reason for death was. And they said, what's the one thing you've learned over your career? And they said, well, societies and humans are capable of incredible empathy or mass murder. And it depends on the belief set that they're given at that time.
MARTÍNEZ: Wow.
BARON COHEN: Right? And that's what scares me now, which is, you know, democracies rely on these shared truths and autocracies and dictatorships rely on these shared lies. And as the movie shows, when leaders lie, people end up dying. And so, you know, why do I go and make the hardest movie that's ever been made? Because I want to deliver my warning. You know, and obviously, I want people to laugh their asses off.
MARTÍNEZ: That is Sacha Baron Cohen. His new film is "Ali G: Who Iz I?" Sacha, thank you very much.
BARON COHEN: Thank you. Lovely to meet you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SNOW SONG, "INFORMER") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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