Monday 4/20/26: severe weather, flood insurance, 'Powwow People' documentary, MFF Shorter Is Better

Joy Powers: From 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR, this is “Lake Effect.” I'm Joy Powers. Today, we'll look at the impact of the severe weather we had last week.

Steve Vavrus: One thing that was a blessing about the hail timing of this year is that it was so early that it didn't affect crops, mature crops. If this had hit in June, it would have been a whole different story.

Joy Powers: Then, we'll tell you about a film at the Milwaukee Film Fest, called “Powwow People.”

Sky Hopinka: There's certain consistencies around it, but really what they offer is just a place for Native people to gather as a sort of refuge, but also just as a celebration and also just as a continuing way of life.

Joy Powers: Plus, we'll explore the Shorts program at the Milwaukee Film Fest. All of that is coming up on “Lake Effect.” This is “Lake Effect” from 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR. I'm Joy Powers, and thank you so much for joining us. We'll start today with a look at the severe weather we experienced last week. Across the state, we saw tornadoes, large hail, and flooding. This year, Milwaukee has already broken the record for April rainfall. And statewide, we've had more severe weather warnings in the month of April than ever before. And the month isn't even over yet. To recap what we saw last week and learn why this month has been so stormy, WUWM Environmental Reporter Susan Bence is joined by the state climatologist, Steve Vavrus.

Susan Bence: Give us a general overview of what's going on. And we're here in Milwaukee, but clearly this is a state issue that we've got going. Can you give us an overview what's been going on?

Steve Vavrus: Yeah, in this month, it's been extremely rainy. April has been way above normal statewide and especially in southeastern Wisconsin. And then on top of that, we had the right conditions for severe weather outbreaks. But this has been unusual in a lot of ways. One, Wisconsin doesn't usually get such severe weather this early in the season. Our severe weather season is usually May through August. And here we are early to mid-April. And also, it's been striking such a wide area of the state. It's not just been localized thunderstorms. These have been very widespread types of outbreaks.

Susan Bence: So, you said the conditions have been right. Can you explain that a bit more?

Steve Vavrus: Yeah, we've had a lot of warm, humid air, which is favorable fuel for severe thunderstorms. And we've also had the right dynamical forcing, meaning that we have weather fronts. We've had stationary fronts and warm fronts hanging around the region, and those fronts give the air enough lift. And so, when you have lift from a front and you have enough warm human air for fuel, you have the ingredients for some thunderstorms, which, if they become strong enough, can even become severe and produce hail. Hail is something that we get when we have really strong updrafts in thunderstorms. And we've had those conditions just right this week, particularly Tuesday, around South-Central Wisconsin in particular.

Susan Bence: So, did you get giant hail where you were located? I think Madison is one of the spots that was hit with some really kind of crazy hail.

Steve Vavrus: The east side of Madison appeared to be pretty much ground zero for the biggest hailstones. I happen to live in Cambridge about 30 minutes east of Madison. We were very lucky and were spared of any hail. The sky became very dark to the north during that severe thunderstorm, but the poor folks on the east side of Madison over by the Dane County Regional Airport really got hit and just widespread reports of roof damage, siding damage, and lots and lots of broken windshields on cars and dented cars and whatnot. I can't imagine how expensive the bill is going to be for this whole storm in total. There were also lots of reports of tornadoes around the area, including one that was fairly strong, an EF-3 on a scale of 1 to 5. And that was in Juneau County. And so that's to be taken very seriously as well. So, the combination of high wind and hail and then the heavy rains. All three conspired to make a very difficult week in Wisconsin. One thing that was a blessing about the hail timing of this year is that it was so early that it didn't affect crops, mature crops. If this had hit in June, it would have been a whole different story. So that is one thing we should feel fortunate about. I think, in terms of agriculture, where farmers are going to feel it very soon is how wet the fields are. There's a lot of standing water in farm fields right now and spring tends to be a wet time of year anyway – a lot of soil moisture – and that can delay planting. And the way we're going this spring with one of our wettest – may turn out to be the wettiest – Aprils on record, is going to slow things down even more unless we suddenly flip into a different weather pattern that's much drier. Fortunately, it looks like we'll have several nice, dry, sunny days, which will help. But we're going to need quite a few more of those in the coming weeks to really try things out to make it better planting conditions.

Susan Bence: Is it too early to say, “Okay, how is this April stacking up to previous years?” Or, how do you think it's best to put what we're experiencing in context, Steve?

Steve Vavrus: I think a couple things. One, we can put it in the context that this is an early start to the severe weather season in Wisconsin. Our three biggest months for hail in our state are May, June, July, and here we are in April. And the other way to put it into context is just how wet it's been. I think in some ways we've lost sight of that a little bit because of the tornadoes and hail storms this week. But the fact is that some places – many places actually – in Wisconsin have already set April rainfall records. Green Bay has had its wettest April by far and we're only halfway through the month. And Milwaukee is now experiencing its wrettest April on record. Madison I believe is fifth place. And there’s no doubt that these numbers, these ranks will climb as we go further into the month.

Susan Bence: I know you're watching what’s happening, but you also think ahead about what could come. So, is climate change the driving force here, or is it one of the forces?

Steve Vavrus: Always one of the forces. I think climate change could be discussed in at least a couple of contexts. One is just the earlier start to the season. We are seeing an extension of our severe weather season from the middle of summer toward the shoulder months and the seasons of spring and fall. And another one that's related is that when we have warm, humid, unstable atmospheric conditions, as we've had, conditions are favorable for developing thunderstorms, some of which can become severe. And so, the climate change helps to create the right ingredients for some of these big storms. But by itself climate change needs something else. It can't do it alone. In this case, we had favorable warm fronts, stationary fronts that provided the lift for the air to really drive upward and generate these big thunderstorms.

Susan Bence: So, I know you're talking to a lot of people, a lot of groups, these days. What do you feel is most important to underscore?

Steve Vavrus: One of the most important things with climate change is that we need to change our thinking. We can't just rely on what's been true in the past. I know it's tempting to think, “Oh, it's only the middle of April; we don't have to worry about severe thunderstorms yet.” But this was a reminder that we do. A couple years ago, we had the first ever documented February tornadoes in Wisconsin, and certainly in that month, nobody's thinking about tornadoes. It's easy to be fooled and think, “Oh, I don't have to worry, because it can't be serious if it's only February.” But in fact, we had some strong tornadoes during that outbreak. So, I think more and more, we're going to need to be thinking away from the past and thinking differently. And rather than considering only the calendar, we need to consider what the conditions actually are outside on a given day. And if they are favorable, it doesn't matter if the calendar said early April. We need to think, we need to be prepared and take seriously any watches that are issued by the National Weather Service.

Joy Powers: Steve Vavrus is the Wisconsin state climatologist. He spoke with WUWM Environmental Reporter Susan Bence.

Joy Powers: A week of heavy rainfall has led to flooded rivers, streets, and basements. In the aftermath, many homeowners are finding out the hard way if their policies will cover the damages, or if they're left with thousands of dollars in repair costs. To understand how to navigate flood insurance, “Lake Effect”’s Audrey Nowakowski is joined by Philip Mulder. He is an assistant professor of risk and insurance at the UW-Madison School of Business. He begins by explaining why flood insurance isn't a standard part of most home insurance policies.

Philip Mulder: To understand why your homeowners insurance policy is not generally going to be covering losses due to flooding, you have to go all the way back to about 1927, when a series of devastating floods along the Mississippi River actually caused a number of insurers to become insolvent – not being able to pay their claims. And this led to a period of time when it was very hard to find an insurer who was willing to write homeowners’ coverage. What I think is important for folks to understand is that this language is in your policy. So, when a flood happens, it's quite simply the case that you are not going to be able to get coverage from your standard homeowners insurance policy. Now, I understand that a lot of people are not fully aware of that going in, especially in a place like Wisconsin where flooding is not top of mind. But unfortunately, you know, most private insurers still view flood as a risk that they don't want to get involved in. And even if you are finding private insurance, you're going to have to do that as a separate flood insurance policy.

Audrey Nowakowski: Okay, so you mentioned private insurance or a second policy. So, can you go over what some options are if you want flood insurance that's not covered by your current, existing homeowner's insurance?

Philip Mulder: Absolutely. So, the main source you're going to be turning to is what's called the National Flood Insurance Program, or NFIP. So again, turning back to our example, all these private insurers went out of business and it turned out that basically after every major flood event in the United States over these years, no one had coverage and the government was basically having to step in and provide disaster aid. This is still familiar to us, of course, but it was on an even larger scale back then, because the flood insurance market was nonexistent. So, starting in the 1960s, they set up the National Flood Insurance Program, NFIP, and that is organized under FEMA now. And they will write you a flood insurance policy. So, the basics that a homeowner should know about the NFIP is that first, you can get coverage. You've probably heard of flood maps. You may be aware that your home either is or is not in an official floodplain, but regardless of that, you can buy coverage. Your lender, if you're in a floodplain may require you to buy the insurance, but even if your lender's not making you buy the coverage, you could go out there and buy it. The NFIP sets a limit. They'll only write insurance up to $250,000 of your home's replacement costs and up to a $100,000 for content. So, these limits – especially after all the inflation during COVID – probably seem low, relative to what most people's homes would really cost to replace. But for sort of flooding that may require extensive repairs but hasn't completely washed away your home, that should be sufficient. Now, there's also a private market now. And they can write higher coverage limits. The pricing there is going to look a little bit different than how the NFIP does it. But in both these cases now, the NFIP recently had some reforms. Both private insurers and the NFIP are going to be basing their premium on an estimate of your home's flood risk. So, you may be surprised at how expensive coverage is, but it is a reflection that flooding is one of the costliest disasters in the United States.

Audrey Nowakowski: Yeah, can we get into that a little bit? Do you know like the average cost of flood insurance here in Wisconsin?

Philip Mulder: Let me start by saying that you can actually find a calculator online. The NFIP offers a tool where you can enter your address, a little bit more information, and in about five to 10 minutes get an estimate for how much your home's coverage would cost through the NFIP for a standard policy and deductible. In addition, you can find a lot of brokers, or speak with your own insurance agent or broker, who can connect you to some of these private flood insurers. But in general, if you live in a very low-risk area, which does describe a lot of Wisconsin – flooding can happen anywhere, but we're not Florida – you're probably looking at costs of $400, $500, or $600 for a one-year policy, depending on the deductible and exactly how much coverage you want. If you lived in a riskier area – maybe in an older home that's very low to the ground, maybe near a large river that overflows – there, coverage might run you $1,000 or more for a one-year policy.

Audrey Nowakowski: So, as you've mentioned, people can opt in if they choose to privately. Do you know if it's difficult to get private flood insurance in the first place? Are there requirements to meet, or is it just a matter of are you willing to pay in for this?

Philip Mulder: Private flood is going to be harder to access, right? So, that's definitely going to be a case where those insurers are being very picky about which risks they take on. This is a market that's slowly growing in the private space. So, for decades, there was no private flood insurance, basically. And now, yes, I think it's something around 10% of all flood insurance policies that are being written through private providers. And it's a valuable market, because sometimes people can find coverage there that they can't get through the NFIP. And sometimes people even find better rates there than you can now get from the NFIP. But, at the end of the day, the backstop, the program that is truly willing to write almost anywhere, that's the National Flood Insurance Program. So, it’s probably worth checking out with private providers first, but if you don't have luck there, you can turn to the NFIP.

Audrey Nowakowski: As you mentioned, Wisconsin's not Florida, but flooding is starting to happen and be a little more common. And many households here in the Milwaukee area are either uninsured or underinsured against flooding. What are some of the contributions to this?

Philip Mulder: Absolutely. So first, I think, as this whole conversation we've had illustrates, it is a tricky area for homeowners to navigate. It's complicated. You know that you're getting a homeowners insurance policy, but maybe you didn't ask what it does or does not cover. Maybe that wasn't entirely clear. Maybe you forgot over time. So, I think a lot of people did not know that they're in this situation. Even when people do know, it's a real expense. You know, homeowner’s insurance is not one of our expenses of homeownership here in Wisconsin. So, to be told that you might be, say, doubling the amount that you have to spend on your home, your property insurance, adding in flood coverage can be a hard thing for a lot of homeowners to reach within their budgets. So, we know interest rates have gone up. We know that property taxes in many places have gone up. Some homeowners just don't have room in their budget to add one more expense onto their monthly mortgage payment, or for folks living on a fixed income.

Audrey Nowakowski: You are also studying the effect of risk-based flood insurance pricing on welfare and climate damages here in the U.S. So, can you tell us a bit about that research and what are some of your major takeaways that you found?

Philip Mulder: Yeah, absolutely. Stepping back – and let me just put like a little frame here – which is, when economists talk about welfare, what we kind of mean is: when we have a policy in the United States, it can create winners; it could create losers. But maybe we want to know, on net, have we created enough winners to justify the losses to other folks? And flood insurance is a great example of this because, for a long time, the program had very subsidized premiums for a lot of people. And it meant that a lot of individuals could buy flood insurance at a rate that was well below their expected loss. And we've seen now over the NFIP's history, it's accumulated tens of billions of dollars in debt to the Treasury. It's had that debt forgiven at several times. At the end of the day, this is falling on taxpayers who face low flood risk. And, you know, that's sort of what we think of as a transfer. There's winners; there's losers. But then the problem is that it encourages development in areas that are prone to flood risk. And that's then where you're kind of starting to create more losers than winners. On top of that, people see a low premium for flood insurance. They see that they're outside of this official 100-year floodplain. They think that they are low risk, when maybe they're not. And so, they don't buy flood insurance; they don't adapt their home. So, a big message from my research is that yes, raising premiums, as the NFIP has done, is painful for some people. But, it gives people better information about their risk. And then they can take steps to prepare, like buying insurance or making sure that developers are building properly adapted homes. So, I think it's really important that we got to get the word out there that people do face risk, that you should consider insurance, and that you should consider adapting your home. And think before you buy, in terms of what flood risk a home might face.

Audrey Nowakowski: I'm just going to take a quick moment to reintroduce you. I'm Audrey Nowakowski, and you're listening to “Lake Effect.” I'm speaking with Philip Mulder. He's an assistant professor of risk and insurance at UW-Madison School of Business. And we're going over flood insurance and all the questions around it. And one question I have is: people are navigating this, and maybe they have policies that can help out in the meantime, maybe they're discovering their policies don't cover what they thought. Can you get FEMA assistance if you have flood insurance as well? Can both resources be combined?

Philip Mulder: They can, to some degree. So, it's going to depend on the specific program. And it should also be noted too, I think that, especially when we talk in very general terms about disasters and FEMA, we think that there's this really unlimited supply of disaster aid that just flows into areas with declarations. That's not the case. FEMA can authorize some short-term payments, precisely to help with folks who need to make some of those smaller expenses, temporary living, things like that. Another program that, even if you have flood insurance, you may find yourself turning to are disaster loans. Those are often issued through the Small Business Administration. Even though it's called the Small Business Administration, they do have a loan program specifically for homeowners. And this covers uninsured losses. So, this can be a case where you have a homeowner’s policy, but it doesn't cover flood. You have flood insurance, but maybe the limit was too low and you have some damages that exceed that limit. The SBA will make you a loan, kind of structured very similarly to a mortgage. And it'll be at a favorable interest rate, depending on your income and credit score. You'll have to make payments. You'll have to pay it back. But it can give you the money you need in the short run. So, this is all of course dependent on whether or not a disaster declaration comes through.

Audrey Nowakowski: And this recent flood really has a lot of homeowners, including myself, questioning if flood insurance is something we should be getting, whether or not we're in the traditional floodplain, since this flood just impacted so many areas. So, there's the question of: do we forego the cost of flood insurance and then perhaps take on the cost of, say, installing drain tiles or a sump pump? What are your insights into weighing decisions like this? Like, “Hey, my home typically has always been fine.” But then we get a thousand-year flood event, and a lot of people have experienced damage after decades of owning a home where water wasn't a problem.

Philip Mulder: Yeah, so it's a really great question. And I think it's complicated, because there are some people who will say that everyone should have flood insurance. And I'm not quite as comfortable making that recommendation to every single person. Budgets are tight, and I get that not everyone can necessarily spend the money. In addition, flood insurance might not be the right product to protect against the kind of risk you have. So, just like a little more detail: first, there are an increasing number of sources where you can get some sense of your home's flood risk. I've mentioned flood maps before, and those are useful up to a point. So, these are the official estimates of flood risk produced by the federal government, and they will tell you whether or not you're in what's called a floodplain. So, floodplain means you have, according to their estimates, at least a 1% chance of flooding each year, a one-in-a-hundred-year flood. That doesn't mean the only flood once every hundred years. You could get 2 or 3 “hundred year floods” in a row. In addition, just because you're outside the floodplain doesn't mean you have no flood risk. During catastrophic rain events, you could still experience flooding. On top of all this, we know we have a changing climate, and these maps can be out of date and not reflect new development. So, you can't take them as a sure sign of whether or not you have risk. There are newer models. So, if you go on Zillow and you look at your home, you might see a flood risk score from one-to-10 there. That's from the First Street Foundation. And you can get sort of a short assessment of your property's flood risk there. I mentioned that you can go to the premium calculator that the NFIP makes available. And if you see that you have a higher premium, that's because they estimate that your home has higher flood risk. So, what to do if you see that your home does have some substantial flood risk or if you just want to be prepared just in case? Flood insurance is absolutely an option, but it doesn't cover, for example, a lot of damage to your basement. In that case, you'll often be on your own, especially for contents. So, really, if that's your main source of risk, things like sump pumps, things like keeping up on the drainage of your home and having that inspected or cleaned if necessary, things as simple as packing your valuable belongings that you do store in the basement in plastic containers and having shelves that elevate them just a little bit off the ground, elevating your HVAC and furnace, these are all things that, in the long run, probably are a little but cheaper than having flood insurance every single year.

Audrey Nowakowski: I know we've covered a lot of great, helpful information. But before we wrap up, I just want to ask if there's anything else you think our listeners should know or anything we didn't cover?

Philip Mulder: Yeah, I just think that it's really important to go into this with as much information as you can about what your insurance does and does not cover, because homeowner’s insurance absolutely excludes this flood peril. And there's exceptions and exclusions to other insurance products too. So, try to find a good agent or broker you can work with to really understand these things. Do some research about what these standard policies do and do not cover. Check your coverage limits, even on your own standard homeowner’s insurance policy. A lot of people find out that they're underinsured when they do suffer a total loss, even if it's not from flooding. So, I think information is going to be your friend, and it's going to be can hopefully empower homeowners to make the right decision to cover their risk.

Audrey Nowakowski: Well, Philip, I want to thank you so much for joining me today to share more about flood insurance and the many complications around it. It was very helpful. Thank you.

Philip Mulder: Thank you, Audrey.

Joy Powers: Philip Mulder is an assistant professor of risk and insurance at the UW-Madison School of Business. He spoke with “Lake Effect”’s Audrey Nowakowski last year. You can find more coverage and resources on the severe weather at wuwm.com. In about 15 minutes, we'll help you pick some movies to check out at the Milwaukee Film Fest that come in small bites. But first, we'll tell you about the film “Powwow People,” which explores the experience of attending and participating in a powwow.

Sky Hopinka: It isn't necessarily to explain what powwows are, or to teach the history of powwows, but rather to show my relationship or just show one way of engaging with them as someone that's participating, as someone who's there.

Joy Powers: That's coming up next on “Lake Effect,” on 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.

Joy Powers: You're listening to “Lake Effect” on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Joy Powers. A documentary at the Milwaukee Film Festival explores the cultural and physical experiences of a powwow. “Powwow People” is a documentary film by Sky Hopinka, a member of the Ho-Chunk Nation. This cinéma vérité-style documentary focuses on how a three-day powwow unfolds through music, dance, and relationships. The film's first screening at the Milwaukee Film Festival is this weekend. Ahead of that, WUWM's Eric Von Fellow, Maria Peralta-Arellano is joined by Hopinka to learn more about the evolving nature of powwows.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: For you, what is the place of the powwow in your life? What do you enjoy about them, and why are they special for you?

Sky Hopinka: Powwows have long been a consistent part of my life. I mean, I first started dancing when I was four years old as a tiny tot. It's something that my family did and my parents both did. And yeah, it's something I could always return to, even when I didn't dance for an extended period of time. Powwows are always places where I feel like, I don't know, some of the stresses you don't realize that you're carrying kind of wash away – just being around Native people, wherever that is across the country. And what I love about them so much is just how adaptable they are to whatever community is hosting them. You know, there's thousands that happen across the county all summer, all fall, all year round basically, and each one is different. There's certain consistencies around it, but really what they offer is just a place for Native people to gather and as a sort of refuge, but also just as a celebration, and also just as a continuing way of life of powwow people living on the powwow trail.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: I think that's one of the things that I also really deeply appreciate, is that no matter where you go, like you said, there are some core things that don't change. But it also has different flares from the tribes that are hosting the powwow and things like that, and that's what makes it special. But also, there's a lot of different ways that indigenous people, indigenous communities kind of show up in contemporary culture, and even how they're showing up in their own communities in contemporary ways. So, why did you choose to showcase the powwow as the focal point for this documentary versus, say, another social gathering?

Sky Hopinka: I mean, probably simply because it's what I grew up with and what I know. And when I very first got into filmmaking, one thing that I was always thinking about was making a powwow film. I just think that there's something beautiful about them. There's something cinematic about them, and there's also something about that relationship of spectacle. There's also the relationship of visitors and guests and spectators coming, and this idea of performance. It's like they're a very performative place and space. And I felt like it would have lent itself well to a piece that is grounded in cinema and storytelling. And like, even with the idea of the film itself, it isn't necessarily to explain what powwows are or to teach the history of powwows, but rather to show my relationship or just show one way of engaging with them as someone that's participating, as someone that's there. And yeah, just this act of attention and looking and also bearing witness, but then also just bearing witness to these dancers and these drummers in the ways that they want to be seen.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: Absolutely. I think that was another aspect that I did appreciate was that, oftentimes when indigenous cultures do come onto our screens or on the big screen, there's always this sort of need to explain and inform at the same time as entertain, but this purely just puts a powwow in a place of appreciation. And, like you said, there are aspects of performance and spectacle, but I didn't feel like the documentary was holding my hand and telling me exactly what this is and what this means. During one of the few points of narration in the documentary, the point is made that there is a certain type of person that it takes to be a powwow person. You have people who go and visit, and then there are true diehard people who are powwow people. So can you just kind of explain what that means? What does that take to live that kind of lifestyle?

Sky Hopinka: There's a lot of different layers and, I mean, it's just the different ways of being a powwow person. Freddie Cozad, who was speaking to that in the film, he was talking about the hardcore powwow person that travels basically like 11 months out of the year from powwow to powwow to powwow, and it's their way of life. And you have some people that just travel during the summer, or when work allows or, when school allows. But I think that just the ways that it varies speaks to, again, just like how adaptable and malleable it is to fit the needs of the people participating. There's all kinds of powwow people, and each one of them gives shape and texture to the beautiful fabric that is powwows and powwow culture. I think, as long as you're powwowing and you're showing up and dancing and spectating, or vending, or selling food, or just participating however you can, I think that speaks to the broadness of what it means to powwow and to be a powwow person.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: I like how you brought up, just generally, there's a bunch of different people that come together to make powwows a powwow and just generally what it is. And in this documentary we follow several people. Of coursem we have our master of ceremonies. We have Freddie Cozak's drum group. We follow a dancer by the name of Jamie John who identifies as two-spirit. They are a non-gender conforming dancerm and it kind of lends itself to that theme of adaptability and changing. How did you find these people? Why did you want to kind of focus on them in the documentary and the things that they had to say about powwows and the lifestyle?

Sky Hopinka: Jamie John was one of the first people that I talked to. I met them through Adam Perrone who was one of the producers on the project but who also is the director of the Sundance Indigenous Program and he knew Jamie John through that, and he introduced us and it was just really nice and fun to talk to Jamie, because they're thinking so much about these things in such a deep and introspective way that isn't just about the present, but thinking about the future. And they really put into words some things that I was thinking about or wondering about or just couldn't quite articulate. And I think that they serve as a wonderful addition to Freddie, who's also speaking about the past – not so much in a nostalgic, mournful way, but just the way that it was about these are the things that happened and we need to remember them, through the small anecdotes that they tell and through the way Freddie is speaking about death and people passing. So, for me, Reuben is very much grounded in the presence of the powwow. Gina is offering the sort of like, idea of guiding someone through the space as she does, and Freddie is speaking to the past and Jamie's speaking to future. So, the four of them, they kind of triangulate, or quadrangulate, different ideas around understanding this place and participating. Which, I think, for me, it's like, they're not so much like characters that have an arc, but they're more people that are sharing their reflections and just little bits of conversation – which also is a thing that I was thinking about with how powwows function when you're there all weekend, all three days. And it's just, like, you have little conversations. You're walking around the powwow grounds, you're making laps through the vendors, and you're just visiting with people. You're sitting out by your campsite and you’re visiting and you’re talking. And so it's those small little conversations. They really add up and really give, again, I think a really important texture that can be often overlooked because it is so mundane, because it's so everyday. And I think that's also one of the most beautiful parts about it too. It's just the sort of everyday aspect of it.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: There's nothing more beautiful than just being a human and going through your daily life and being able to appreciate that, on the point of just how they all kind of balance each other out and they're all bringing these ideas. The main theme of change and adaption, which I found throughout the documentary, was that on purpose or did that just kind of emerge as you guys were filming?

Sky Hopinka: I mean it kind of emerged. Like, Jamie was the first interview that I did. And, when they were talking about the idea of change and how that kind of near the end of the film comes in, going through the interviews, it just seemed like this is the thing that is really important to understand about powwows – as well as, like, they're always changing. They're always evolving. And not only across region, but also across time. In the last 50, 60 years they've changed. In the last 100 years they have changed. Heck, even the last 10 years they've changed. And I think that's a really good thing, because, as Jamie mentions in the film, this idea of “traditional” should always be questioned. What are we bringing with us? And what do we want to and what should we leave behind?

Maria Peralta-Arellano: What are some of the changes that you've seen within the powwow circle and lifestyle?

Sky Hopinka: I mean, I'm 42 years old right now. And I first started dancing when I was probably four years old, like I said. I've lived mostly on the West Coast, so the powwows that I went to were up in Canada, in Washington, California, Oregon, a bit of Montana and Idaho. And even in that sort of regional space, it’s like powwows can go in and out of fashion, you know? Sometimes they're celebrated and sometimes they're criticized, and sometimes communities want to host their own culturally specific gatherings, and that's great. You know, you have the rise of casino powwows, you have more traditional powwos kind of coming back, the different contest powwows with prize money. All these different sort of things factor into the powwow trail and the powwow circuit and which powwows dancers are going to. With everything, there's, you know, high tide, low tide. It ebbs and flows. And again, I think that is just a reflection of where people are at and what they're thinking about – what their concerns are as Native people across the country.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: Some of those concerns did play a part into your planning of the documentary. From what I understand, you and your team decided to set up your guys' own powwow to be able to film at, versus going to another community's powwow to go and film at. What went into that decision, and what work went into actually forming a powwow and then filming and micing that?

Sky Hopinka: I mean, it was always an idea of filming our own powwow, but we also explored the idea of do we want to go to different communities? Do we want to go to four or five different powwows across the country to kind of get an idea the breadth of the different types of powwows there are? But ultimately, what made the most sense in the truest spirit of the film and the filmmaking process was just hosting our own powwow and making sure that people could self-select whether they wanted to participate or not and be on camera or not. All throughout the powwow too, we were making sure to announce that this is filmed, just because there's such a long history of extraction in Native communities of images and imagery of Native peoples, often without permission or consent. So, it's a way for us to let everyone know that this was a powwow that is going to be on a film. And if you want to be in the film, you can come, and if you don't, then you don't have to.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: When I first watched the documentary, I thought it was such an interesting way to film it, in addition to very light narration and just thoughts coming in naturally from the people that we are following. Why did you choose to film in that way?

Sky Hopinka: I think it was initially this resistance to making a story out of it, you know? Like, I don’t know, I didn't want to have a film where it was just like, “Is this person going to get this in the end, or are they going to do this at the end?” Like I said, there's just a certain aspect of powwows where it's just like they happen every weekend. And sometimes they're boring, sometimes they are exciting, sometimes you're just killing time, and you're just waiting for something to happen. Sometimes you're just caught up in the moment, and it's over like that or whatever. And I don't know, again, I just wanted to have these different textures of voices come in where it also wasn't trying to give them the authoritative talking head documentary treatments, you know? Like, “These are the experts and this is the history lesson you're going to get, and this what this means and this means, and this means.” Rather, I just wanted to make a film that was like what it feels like to be at a powwow. Like, sometimes it is like that. Sometimes you have conversations with people you never see again. And sometimes you see the same people over and over and again. And also too, I like the sort of voiceover technique because it just feels a little bit like you're watching something, but you're also listening to someone talk to you. And also, it kind of can be a little more open too, of just like giving people different ways in of seeing themselves in these different places and spaces.

Maria Peralta-Arellano: What did you enjoy specifically, whether it's about creating the documentary, editing, or the final product, just what do you enjoy and what do you hope other people enjoy about it?

Sky Hopinka: I will say having the powwow at Daybreak Star Indian Cultural Center in Seattle, Washington, was really special. I grew up going to that powwow. They have a powwow every July on those powwow grounds, so we had our powwow in August, and so it felt really good to have our powwow there with just such a long history of that space. And also, just seeing old friends and family. I'd seen some people that knew me when I was born. And it felt like a really nice environment and place, and just a really nice three days with a lot of people. And that's the part that I think I really enjoyed most. I mean, I love editing. I love seeing the finished product, but my hope is that the finished product captures the feelings that were there during the filming of it.

Joy Powers Sky Hopinka is the filmmaker of Powwow People. He spoke with WUWM Eric Von Fellow Maria Peralta-Arellano. The documentary is screening at the Milwaukee Film Fest on April 25th, 28th, and the 30th. Milwaukee Film is a financial supporter of WUWM.

Joy Powers If you need some flexibility for when you listen, you can listen to “Lake Effect” on demand. Find it as a podcast wherever you like to listen, to download and enjoy on the go. Still to come, we'll tell you about Milwaukee Film’s Shorts programming. That's coming up next on “Lake Effect,” on 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.

Joy Powers This is “Lake Effect” on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Joy Powers. It's day five of the Milwaukee Film Fest. And don't worry, there is still plenty of time to go to the movies. But you may be feeling overwhelmed by the hundreds of options of films to see during the festival. To help narrow down your options, you could pick a theme – like “Most Dramatic,” “Black Lens,” “Animated,” or even “Date Night.” Those are all offered as part of Film Festival's Shorts program. To learn more about what's being offered and to give a few recommendations, Lake Effect's Audrey Nowakowski is joined by Milwaukee Film Shorts programmer, Jack Feria.

Audrey Nowakowski: Welcome to Lake Effect, thank you for having me at the theater today.

Jack Feria: Thank you for joining us, yes.

Audrey Nowakowski: So, I love Film Fest season, and we're in it. And what I often recommend to people who might be a little overwhelmed by the hundreds of films available is to see a Shorts program. And I know it's your job to be biased in this, but can you tell me why shorts are the best?

Jack Feria: Okay, yes. First of all, I think so many folks will look at short films or they'll look at them at the program book and they're like, “Oh, these are the bonus features; this is the extra stuff.” No, this is a main course on its own. You get to see between six and 10 short films from around the world, all about the same tone. But through one feature film, you get to see about eight or nine films. Like, it's so worth it. It's such a fun little package.

Audrey Nowakowski: I was at the press preview day, and you said a quote that I loved – that shorts are the heartbeat of a film festival.

Jack Feria: They certainly are. Yeah. That's where you get not just your up-and-coming filmmakers, but established filmmakers flexing their muscles in short films. So, you’ve got to go see them.

Audrey Nowakowski: Now, if people are wanting some bite-sized drama, there's a lot of selections for all the films, all the shorts, but I understand you're debuting a new Shorts program. Can you tell me more about that?

Jack Feria: Oh my gosh, yes. So, this year, the Milwaukee Film Festival turns 18. It has graduated from high school. So, I decided we're going to give out some superlatives. And so, we have our very first ever “Most Dramatic.” These are films that have won awards at Sundance, South by Southwest, and are just acclaimed dramas. So, you get all of the joy and pain of the human experience all wrapped into one little package. It's going to be fantastic.

Audrey Nowakowski: And one of the shorts in this program is called “The Oracle.” What made this stand out to you that you wanted to include it in the festival in this new debut program?

Jack Feria: “The Oracle” is such a ride. I want to say as little as possible about it, but there are so many fantastic character actors that you'll see in it. But it's about a therapist who is kind of discovering that one of his patients might know the secret language that he and his brother spoke as six-year-olds.

Audrey Nowakowski: Wow. I’m in.

Jack Feria: And then the ride goes on from there. But yeah, it's just one of the things I love so much about short films is that you are sat, and then 16 minutes later? You are a changed person, having gone through the experience that the filmmaker has given you.

Audrey Nowakowski: Yeah. And the shorts, it's great because you need to get into the action right away.

Jack Feria: Oh, yeah.

Audrey Nowakowski: Like, the plot thickens immediately.

Jack Feria: There's very little filler. Yes, absolutely.

Audrey Nowakowski: And all the shorts are arranged by a theme, and there's so many that I like, but I'm always intrigued by “Out of This World.” It could mean sci-fi, it could mean a little bit of surprise, it could mean horror, who knows? The possibilities are vast, so what short in this program was particularly “Out of this World” for you?

Jack Feria: Yes, I want talk about “We Were Here.” This is a film from India about three dads who are realizing that technology – and, in particular, AI – is taking over all of the jobs. So they decide to take over the jobs of some robots. They decide that they are going to be satellite antennas for a week, that they're going to be microwaves. The way that that happens is hilarious, but it's a really great way to laugh at the horrors of AI taking over everything and some small ways we can perhaps fight back.

Audrey Nowakowski: I like this. I think we need it right now. And if “Out of this World” sounds good to any listeners, I would also suggest pairing it with “Stranger Than Fiction.” But, to shift to “GenreQueer,” are there any overarching feelings, themes that help you put this whole program together?

Jack Feria: Yeah, with this year's program, you can tell that all these filmmakers grew up watching films like “Clue” or “Edward Scissorhands.” There's so much in the visual style of all of these. That's just so much fun. And in particular, there's a film called “The Motive,” from someone who I've loved on Twitter for so long. His name is Jorge Molina. He's a programmer as well. But, this is a short film that is a murder mystery that takes a bit of a turn, as all murder mysteries do. But there's a little bit of spice to this one, and very heartfelt. I'm excited to see the reaction to that one.

Audrey Nowakowski: So, a little bit of a nostalgia trip overall for some people.

Jack Feria: Absolutely.

Audrey Nowakowski: Okay, that is always a winner in a lot of people's books right now too. And now, for animated – and I want to note that not all animated programs mean kid-friendly. So, people should read the descriptions and take note. If you want to take your kids to something, there is rated “K” for kids, there's a lot other kids’ programs too. But what I love about animated shorts is that you truly see so many different styles and methods of creating animation – whether it's drawn, painted, stop-motion. What's the range in this year's program?

Jack Feria: Yeah. This year, we have a short film that frame-by-frame was done through watercolor – which is just cuckoo bananas to do, and to tell the story in that way. We've got 3D-animated films, traditional 2D, and one in particular, it's called “Paper Trail.” It's from two-time Oscar nominee Don Hertzfeldt. It's his newest film, and I’ve got be so frank, I think it's his very best. But, it tells the story of a person's life through the paper that they left behind, from the very beginning to the very end. There's going to be sniffles in the crowd.

Audrey Nowakowski: Well, that reminds me of one of the Oscar shorts that were nominated this past year – “The Butterfly” was all paint.

Jack Feria: Yes!

Audrey Nowakowski: So, you're saying it's kind of similar but in a watercolor format?

Jack Feria: Yes, absolutely.

Audrey Nowakowski: It was stunning. And if we need to make yet another case for why people should see shorts, and talking about Oscars, you programmed shorts at last year's festival that were nominated for the Oscars and even won. Can you remind people what those were? And did you feel like a proud parent when they won?

Jack Feria: Oh my gosh, yeah. We had three films that were in the program last year that were nominated. We had “Retirement Plan” from Let's Get Animated, which was narrated by Domhnall Gleason. Beautiful, beautiful film. Congrats, John. And then two of the short films, we had “Jane Austen's Period Drama,” which was in “Date Night,” which was the audience favorite from last year. And then “The Singers,” which won the Academy Award, was in “Surprise, Surprise,” which was the runner-up of our audience. We never share what is the runner up, but that was that was the runner up from last year.

Audrey Nowakowski: I'm glad to know that though, because yeah. It was hard to pick with a lot of those.

Jack Feria: Oh my god, I mean to the point that even in that category alone, there was a tie. There was a tie for Live-Action Short Film. But, absolutely. It's so exciting, because every year I watch between like 1,100 and 1,200 short films. So, when you find those ones that are fantastic and you're like “this is the beginning of its life here at the Milwaukee Film Festival all the way to the Oscar stage” is just so beautiful.

Audrey Nowakowski: It is. So, we'll keep an eye out a little over this time next year. “Paper Trail.” Will it be at the Oscars?

Jack Feria: 100%, 100%. That's not my little prediction. I think that is fully, that is a spoiler. “Paper Trail” will win the Oscar. See you next year.

Audrey Nowakowski: Excellent. Well, in the meantime – in addition to “Paper Trail” – so many other shorts. Jack, thank you so much for joining me today to talk about them.

Jack Feria: Thank you. See you at the movies.

Joy Powers: Jack Feria is the Shorts programmer for Milwaukee Film. At wuwm.com, you can find more information about some of the films Feria and “Lake Effect”'s Audrey Nowakowski talked about. WUWM is the sponsor of the “Shorter is Better” program at the Film Fest. And that wraps up today's show. Thank you so much for being here with us. I'm Joy Powers. If you ever miss a “Lake Effect” conversation, you can find all of them at wuwm.com. If you'd like to take the show on the go, you download the “Lake Effect” podcast wherever you get your podcasts. The Knowles Nelson Stewardship Program has protected natural areas in Wisconsin for over 30 years. Tomorrow on “Lake Effect,” we'll learn why that program may be coming to an end. Thank you so much for joining us right here on listener-supported 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.