Friday 7/10/26: WEDEC, ticks, neighborhood posters, Chirp Chat

David Lee: Support for WUWM podcasts comes from Potawatomi Casino Hotel Milwaukee, home to 24/7 excitement, dining, and an on-site hotel at 1721 West Canal Street. More information at potawatomi.com.

Xcaret Nuñez: From 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR, this is Lake Effect. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Today, we'll learn about a new nonprofit that's working to eliminate the stigma around eating disorders and help people find recovery. Then we'll share an update on tick bite cases in Wisconsin, and how to prevent them.

Xia Lee: Tick season has started about two weeks earlier than what it did for last year. And so it's not necessarily an increase in the number of ticks that we're seeing compared to previous years, but just an earlier appearance of those ticks.

Xcaret Nuñez: Plus, we'll learn about an album all about Wisconsin birds in an episode of Chirp Chat.

Aaron Grych: And I thought, what if a loon call went in there, what would that sound like? That made me to think, can I connect these things that I love, birding and music, and make it into a reflection of myself?

Xcaret Nuñez: All of that is coming up on Lake Effect. This is Lake Effect, from 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Thanks so much for joining us today. 500,000 Wisconsinites struggle with eating disorders, serious mental illnesses that can present in many forms and can affect people of all ages. A new nonprofit called the Wisconsin Eating Disorder Education and Community Foundation, or WEDEC, strives to eliminate the stigma around eating disorders and cultivate a culture of healing and awareness. It was founded by Dr. Welk-Richards, who joins Lake Effect's Audrey Nowakowski, along with Emily D, a local resident in recovery. A note to our listeners: this conversation contains personal descriptions of living with an eating disorder. Dr. Welk-Richards begins by explaining the risk factors for developing an eating disorder.

Robyn Welk-Richards: The youngest that I've treated is down to age six. Oldest, I think, 65. They definitely kind of are non-discriminatory in nature. A lot of the risk factors, genetics can be a component. Transitions in life, environmental transitions, going into different phases of school, going into college, body changes, and body transitions can also be a significant risk factor. I would also say eating disorders can begin to pop up when somebody's feeling really unsettled in their experiences in their life. Maybe they've gone through a tough time. Even things that can feel small, for somebody can be very big, especially if there's anxiety involved, and that can really lead them to try to control things in their lives — food being something that is very easy to gravitate towards.

Audrey Nowakowski: Would you say it's accurate that eating disorders are usually paired with, as you mentioned, anxiety, depression, OCD, things of that nature?

Robyn Welk-Richards: Absolutely. I can say I don't think I've ever treated somebody that just has an eating disorder. It's almost always partnered with some other mental health or emotional health concern going on.

Audrey Nowakowski: As you said, you've treated a massive age range of people struggling with eating disorders. And I'm wondering if you can help share some key warning signs, noting that these are all individual presentations, right? But are there any common warning signs or symptoms that can help people, perhaps, just begin to evaluate their behaviors in themselves or others that could help lead to a diagnosis?

Robyn Welk-Richards: Yeah, definitely. I think some of the more subtle warning signs would be noticing somebody maybe not being as social as they've been in the past. Maybe they're isolating a little bit more, spending a little more time kind of closed down or kind of to themselves. Some of the dramatic warning signs that we might start to see is medical complications. A dentist might pick up on enamel eroding on their patient's teeth from the acid of binging and purging in somebody's life. We can also start to notice, I think, the obvious one is weight loss. That tends to be an obvious one, or significant weight gain in a short period of time. Those can both be pretty common symptoms of different eating disorders. Some other warning signs would be like hiding behind clothing. So you might notice your loved one or a friend wearing baggier clothing or really trying to hide so that people don't see them. A lot of time people are trying to hide the way their body looks — number one, because maybe they're uncomfortable, but number two, they know they're losing weight, and the eating disorder likes that, but they also know that that's not going to be accepted. And so they're trying to hid that and hide from that.

Audrey Nowakowski: Being aware of the duality.

Robyn Welk-Richards: Yep, absolutely.

Audrey Nowakowski: Now, Emily, you're joining us today to lend your voice as someone who's personally gone through this journey. As much as you're comfortable, can you share with us your own struggles with an eating disorder?

Emily D: Absolutely. Thank you so much, by the way, for having me. I would say my eating disorder started pretty early on in life, and we talk about, Dr. Robin just spoke about, some of the risk factors that can lead to an eating disorder. Thinking about my past and where it started for me, is that from a very young age, I was put on a lot of restrictive diets. And as a young person, that was very much internalized, that something was wrong, right? That my body wasn't good enough, that it needed to be changed, it needed look different, and that there was something wrong with me, right? That's how it felt. And that kind of carried on, right? That mindset of I need to change. And so that restrictive diet kind of culture that was going on, that I was kind of put through at a young age, you know, developed into, I would hide foods that I wasn't allowed to have, because I wanted to have them. And that just escalated and between yo-yoing, between restrictive diets, and then also the other side of things, binging, right? Binging became one of my behaviors due to the fact that I had no access to some of those things. It even further developed into later in life and young adulthood into bulimia, where I had been binging and purging multiple times a day. And again, I think, like we said, when Dr. Robin talked about the risk factors, right? How we carry ourselves and how we interact with our bodies and how interact with the food we eat and how that relationship with food, our youth notice that. They notice that. And it doesn't have to be explicitly said. And there was a lot of that going on in my household too. You know, comments on their own bodies and things like that. And so that all becomes internalized, and it just kind of escalates from there.

Audrey Nowakowski: Emily, I imagine the mental toll this takes, right? Especially, as you said you were dealing with it from such a young age, and that it changed and developed into adulthood. When was the moment that you were ready to get help or seek help, or did someone help you do that? What was your next step to go to treatment?

Emily D: It's actually a little bit of an interesting story. And I think it's an important one, because it highlights the importance of education. I had seen a doctor at the age of 23, about. And I confided in them and the behaviors that I was engaging in, and the binging and purging. And at that point it was pretty significant. I was doing that multiple times a day. Health was being affected, all that. And I had a doctor verbatim tell me to "not worry about it," because the only problem they see with bulimia is malnutrition. And I was overweight. And so it didn't matter. That's a very strong message, and it's coming from a person who is in societal standards a place of authority somewhat, right? We trust these individuals to help us, and that was the messaging I got. And so I carried on a little bit longer thinking that I was okay. And it wasn't until I had really learned, I think I was watching a TV show or something, about the effects of bulimia and how serious it was. And I had noticed that I had had some of those effects, right? Some of the health effects. And so I was like, "Wow, I need help." And I literally walked into an eating disorder treatment center in my neighborhood, and I asked for help. I didn't even make an appointment. And I think at that point, to be honest, a lot of it was fear-based. I was very afraid, because I realized, I finally realized what I was doing to myself and how severe it was and how serious it was. And that was a big turning point for me, but it only continued, right? I mean, my treatment had to continue. It didn't stop there.

Audrey Nowakowski: It's very disappointing to hear what that doctor told you, and I'm sorry you went through that. And Dr. Welk-Richards, I imagine it upsets you even more, being a practitioner, right? And you founded the Wisconsin Eating Disorders Education and Community Foundation. It's a new nonprofit, and it's dedicated to, quote, "the ethical and integrity-driven advancement of eating disorder awareness, treatment, and community care in Wisconsin." So that was one example that Emily gave us, but can you share where you saw our community, both in the common person and practitioners, falling short of this awareness, care, and proper treatment, and how you believe this nonprofit can help shift this?

Robyn Welk-Richards: Yeah, I got a little teary-eyed there. Yeah, so, I mean, I've been working with eating disorders and within this field for over 20 years. And I've definitely seen the landscape of treatment, what we're offering, education, training, shift over those 20 years. And experiences like what Emily went through, I think, unfortunately, they're maybe not common, but also not uncommon. And kind of the foundation behind WEDEC was we want to make sure that people are being trained adequately. Up and coming clinicians or new clinicians that are passionate about this population, that we can offer them the training and the education and the hands-on opportunities to learn how to work with and treat human beings that are battling eating disorders and to do it in the right way, to do it in a safe way, and to be able to know the signs and the symptoms that they have to look for to make sure that they're then getting the right levels of care that they need. So, starting with students that are getting their masters and recognizing that there is very limited education in the universities across the nation in kind of how to treat eating disorders, how to diagnose, there's just a limited education at that level. We wanna offer an institute in partnership with universities to provide internships and competency-based training and didactics to train these people what to look for, and to do that with experts, training them all along the way. So that's kind of that first pillar of education within WEDEC. And then a second part of that educational pillar is to be able to educate practitioners out in the field that they don't treat eating disorders regularly, but when they come into their office, be it medical, dental, gynecological, that they know how to help these people. We want to educate. We want to partner. We wanna collaborate with professionals across the state. Our second pillar is that community pillar, and that is dedicated to individuals across the state that do not have access to care for a myriad of reasons. It might be that they are in small-town Northern Wisconsin, and they just don't have the practitioners up there that know what they're doing. We wanna be able to help either find somebody that can, and help that person to treat this human being the way they need to be treated, or to be able put services in place within our training institute to get them the services virtually. It also might be an issue of financials. And if that's the case, we are gonna be able to treat them through our foundation with interns that are getting expert-level supervision. We want to work with therapists that are in training, dietitians in training, nurse practitioners and psychiatric care in training. That's the trifecta of professionals that really are needed to work with eating disorders and to collaborate together in order to help those human beings find recovery.

Audrey Nowakowski: That's amazing. And a recent non-profit, so it's just the beginning. If someone listening right now is identifying with anything we've touched upon today, talking about eating disorder awareness and treatment, this question is for the both of you. What are some first steps you'd recommend? You know, Dr. Welk-Richards as a practitioner, what would you recommend? And Emily, as someone who's gone through this, what do you recommend?

Emily D: I think one of the biggest things that come along with eating disorders that make it very difficult to... And this is why it's so important that people have access to treatment, right? Because just even taking that first step to get treatment is a very difficult step, right? Eating disorders carry a lot of shame. They're rooted in shame, right? They thrive in shame. And so even just taking that step of asking for help is a really difficult step. Admitting that there's something that's going on is a really difficult step. And it requires vulnerability. And so I think the biggest thing I could say is take that first step, even if it's just a Google search. Look where there is help in the area and just ask, just ask a question, right? I mean, the worst that's gonna happen is someone might tell you no, or you might, you know, there are bad responses out there like we've talked about, right. And that can make it even scarier to ask for help, because you never know what the response is gonna be. And that's that vulnerability piece, but you also never know if you're gonna get a good response, right? And you never know if you are gonna get the help that you may have needed. And so I think taking that first step, I mean, I was terrified. It was terrifying. And I did it, and I ended up getting help, and I'm here today, and I am in recovery, and I can say that because of taking that step.

Robyn Welk-Richards: Yeah, I think for somebody that is listening to this, that is battling this in their mind right now, tell somebody. It can be reaching out to WEDEC. It can be reach out to your best friend, or even somebody at school or at work. Tell somebody, because the minute we shine even the smallest light on this, it starts to dissipate the shame that is connected to the illness. And with that, we start to gain a little bit more power back and more control in our own brain. So if you are listening and you are struggling, please reach out. Talk to somebody.

Audrey Nowakowski: Well, I want to thank you both for coming in to talk to me about this very important topic and the work you're doing to address it. So again, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Robyn Welk-Richards: Thank you so much.

Emily D: Thank you.

Xcaret Nuñez: Dr. Robin Welk-Richards is the founder and executive director of the Wisconsin Eating Disorder Education and Community Foundation, or WEDEC. Emily D. Is a Wisconsin resident in recovery. They both spoke with Lake Effect's Audrey Nowakowski. Emergency room visits for tick bites are higher than usual across the country, including right here in Wisconsin. Health officials say a warm spring prompted ticks to show up earlier than previous years, which means people are more likely to run into ticks as they head outdoors. Xia Lee is a public health entomologist with the State Department of Health Services. He joins me to talk about tick bite cases and how to stay safe this tick season. What are tick bite cases looking like right now across Wisconsin?

Xia Lee: So tick bite cases here in Wisconsin, or at least from our data that we have in terms of emergency room visits that are related to tick bites, we are seeing an increased number of visits compared to previous years. What we're seeing this year, we're seing about 66 visits or so around this time. If you compare that to last year, we're seeing about 40 or so visits. So you can see that the numbers are up a little bit. A couple of weeks ago, we had about 44 visits to the ED. And then you compare that to last year, which was about 24 visits. So you can see where the numbers were double this year compared to last here. And we think a lot of that has to do with the increase in the tick populations that are appearing right now. So we're seeing an earlier start in the ticks season. So tick season has started about two weeks earlier than what it did for last year. And so it's not necessarily an increase in the number of ticks that we're see compared to previous years, but just an earlier appearance of those ticks.

Xcaret Nuñez: Understood. So what is making ticks come out even earlier? Like what kind of conditions do they thrive in?

Xia Lee: So when the weather gets warm in the springtime, that's usually when we see the adult ticks start to become active. And so in this case, the adult deer ticks. So here in Wisconsin, we generally say that when the temperatures get above 40 degrees in spring and then there's no snow cover, then the deer ticks start to become active and they start to look for someone to bite or something to feed on. And we see something similar with wood ticks as well, that during the spring time when the weather gets warm, they also start to become active as well. And so I think this year we had a warmer spring. And so the ticks have been activated just a little bit earlier than in previous years.

Xcaret Nuñez: So do you think that the cases that we're seeing right now is the peak, or do you expect the number of ER visits for tick bites to go up?

Xia Lee: It's a very good question. It depends on a lot of factors. In general, we do see those ED visits go up as we move into the summertime, because that's when more ticks will come out. Right now, we're seeing just the adult deer ticks and then just the adult wood ticks. But as we go into the summer months, we see that the adults are still around. They're sort of lingering around. Their populations, or the numbers, aren't as high as what they normally are during the springtime. But during the summer we also see an increase in the number of juvenile life stages, nymphal life stages. So generally speaking, in terms of just sort of monitoring those trends of ED visits related to tick bites, we generally see them spike during the summer months. And that's also partly because we as humans, we're more active during those summer months, and so we're more likely to come in contact with ticks that are also out there during that same period.

Xcaret Nuñez: Something to clarify: just because you get bitten by a tick doesn't mean you have Lyme disease or a disease gets transmitted. But how common is this disease in Wisconsin and what's the likelihood of transmission?

Xia Lee: Yeah, yeah, that's a very good question. So here in Wisconsin, we have, unfortunately, quite a number of pathogens or diseases that can be transmitted by the deer tick. So in general, with the diseases, the transmission time is very different for each of them. But in general, when we think about the pathogen that causes Lyme disease, that pathogen can be transmited between 24 and 36 hours after attachment, right? So after the tick has bitten you, to move from the gut of the tick, into its mouth parts, and into you. And so with that sort of transmission timing in mind, so if the tick has bitten you here in Wisconsin and you remove it before 24 hours, we have guidelines to recommend that you just sort of wait and see if you develop any symptoms. But if the tick has been attached to you for more than 24 hours, then in that case, we recommend that you remove that deer tick and then go in for prophylactic treatment. And so just thinking about that, in terms of the percentage of the ticks that are infected with the pathogen that causes Lyme disease, here in Wisconsin we calculate that, on average 20% of the juvenile life stage, and those are the ticks are active during the summer months, so June and July, that 20% percent of that life stage are infected the pathogens that can cause Lyme disease. With the adult ticks, since they've had two opportunities to feed and two opportunities to pick up a pathogen, generally when we do the math on that life stage, we see that about 40% to 50% of that life stage are infected with the pathogen that causes Lyme disease. But with all that being said, I think it's important to know that here in Wisconsin, because there is such a high prevalence of the pathogen, 20% to 50% of ticks are infected with the pathogen that can cause Lyme disease. We treat every tick bite as if the tick is infected without having the need to actually test those ticks for that pathogen based on those recommendations that I provided earlier, that if the tick has been attached to you for more than 24 hours, we treat it as if the tick is infected and has potentially infected you, so you go in and get treated for potential Lyme disease.

Xcaret Nuñez: I'm Lake Effect's Xcaret Nunez speaking with Dr. Xia Lee about the recent tick bite cases across Wisconsin. So, you were talking about this: if someone gets a tick bite, how can they remove it and report their case?

Xia Lee: So with tick removal, our recommendation is to take a pair of tweezers and grab it by the mouth parts and slowly pull the tick off until it either releases or it comes off. The different tick species, the way that they release, it's a little bit different. And sometimes too, mostly with the deer tick, when you try to remove it, the mouth parts can break off and stay embedded in you. That's not a sign that the tick is infecting you, nor is it a sign the tick will infect you. It's just a broken piece of the tick's mouth part. It can do nothing in your body. And so we recommend that you just leave it in there. Your body will take care of it. We've seen people try to dig it out, and that just usually leads to a secondary infection. So just leave in there, clean it off with some soap and warm water. And then of course, like I said, if the tick has been on you for less than 24 hours, just sort of see if you develop symptoms to tick-borne diseases. And if the tick has been on you for more than 24, then we recommend that you go see your healthcare provider about getting treated for prophylactic treatment for Lyme disease.

Xcaret Nuñez: And with the weather warming up, what are some other ticks and tick-borne diseases people should keep an eye out for as they travel out of state this summer?

Xia Lee: So we do have the Lonestar Tick that does show up occasionally here in Wisconsin. But for the most part, if you're traveling outside of Wisconsin to those southern states, that's the natural range of the Lonestar Tick. That tick is of special importance here in the United States because a tick bite can lead to alpha-gal. And so alpha-gal, if you're not aware, is a disease where you become allergic to red meat. And so a bite from a Lonestar tick could potentially lead to a situation where you can become sensitive to red meat. So when you eat red meat, such as beef or pork, you might develop allergic reactions to that. The symptoms vary, from mild symptoms like gastrointestinal symptoms, to something a little bit more severe, like anaphylaxis. And so it's very important to know that if you are traveling outside of Wisconsin, to know where you're traveling and whether or not the Lonestar ticks can be found on those locations, and then to tick-preventative behaviors in order to prevent a tick bite from a Lonestar tick.

Xcaret Nuñez: And before I let you go, can you share some advice on how people can prevent tick bites?

Xia Lee: Yes, absolutely. Tick-bite prevention, I think about it in three different stages. And so I think about what you can do before you head outside, what you can do while you're outside, and then what you can do after you come back from being outdoors in areas where there may be ticks. And so, before you head outside, I recommend that you check the location where you're going, especially if you're traveling outside of Wisconsin. Here in Wisconsin in every county we know that there are deer ticks. And so your risk of coming to contact with a deer tick is pretty high here in Wisconsin. But if you're traveling outside of Wisconsin, like for example, you're heading to states where there may be Lonestar Ticks, to be aware of where you may come to contact with the Lonestar Tick. Another thing to consider before you head out is to consider treating your clothing with a product that contains permethrin. And so that's a insecticide that's lethal to ticks and mosquitoes, but it's fairly safe for humans. And so in that case, if you treat your clothing with that, and if you get to apply bug spray, when the ticks grab onto you, grab onto your clothing, they'll get that lethal dose of that permetin, and it'll kill them before they can attach to you. Or if they do attach to you, it will kill them before they can transmit any pathogens to you. So that's what I like to think about before I head out. While I'm outdoors hiking in areas where there could be ticks, I like to do tick checks whenever I stop. So if you're hiking on a trail and you get to bench in the trail, just do a quick tick check. You don't know where the ticks are. Some of these ticks, like the Wood Ticks and the Lonestar ticks, are active hunters, meaning that they will seek you and hunt you down while you're standing there in the woods or while you are hiking through the woods. Other ticks like deer ticks, they tend to be ambush hunters, meaning that the like to wait for you to brush up against them on vegetation. And so just do your tick checks whenever you stop, and that's a good opportunity to remove any ticks before they can attach to you. And then, of course, while you're out there, use bug spray. Target areas where ticks are going to grab onto you. A lot of the adult ticks are grabbing onto us around our thigh region, around our shin region, and our waist region. And then when you're done being outdoors and you come back inside, I recommend again doing a thorough tick check to make sure that you don't carry any of those passengers into your home. And then take off your clothes, throw them into the dryer, run it on high for about 20 minutes, and that high heat will kill any ticks that are still left on your clothing. And then of course, take a shower. And that's also an opportunity to do another thorough tick check on yourself to make sure that you don't have any ticks attached to you. So those are my recommendations in terms of what to do to prevent tick bites.

Xcaret Nuñez: Well, that's a lot of great advice, so we can still enjoy our time outdoors this summer. Well, Dr. Lee, thank you so much for speaking with me today and helping me understand the latest on ticks in Wisconsin.

Xia Lee: Yes, thank you for having me on.

Xcaret Nuñez: Dr. Xia Lee is a public health entomologist with the Wisconsin Department of Health Services. Need some flexibility for when you listen to Lake Effect? You can listen to us on demand. Find Lake Effect as a podcast wherever you like to listen, download it and enjoy on the go. Later in the show, we'll talk to a Madison-based musician about his new album, inspired by birds. But first, we're joined by historian John Gurda to learn about the city's neighborhood posters. That's coming up on Lake Effect on Milwaukee's NPR. You're listening to Lake Effect on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. John Gurda is perhaps best known as the chief historian of the city of Milwaukee. His documentary series and book, "The Making of Milwaukee," have become vital sources in understanding the city's history. But Gurda's impact on Milwaukee has been broad and varied. In fact, his work can be seen in neighborhoods throughout the city, on lampposts and in homes. John Gurda joins Lake Effect's Joy Powers to talk about the city of neighborhoods, and the posters that represent them.

Joy Powers: One of the annual celebrations of 414 Day is a special deal on the posters for Milwaukee's neighborhoods. And it's my understanding that you were part of how these posters came to be. Is that right?

John Gurda: Absolutely, yeah. It was a great project. This was back to the late '70s, and it was, I think the name was Discover Milwaukee. Became the Spirit of Milwaukee for a time. But it was part of the Department of City Development under Henry Maier and Bill Drew and the office of Greg Coonen — departed, a blessed memory. His idea was to highlight neighborhoods as kind of building blocks of the city. So I was hired as a contractor to, first of all, identify neighborhoods in Milwaukee, sort of map them, the ones that were identifiable, and then to write an essay about each of them, highlighting history and kind of character, and then work with a DCD artist named Jan Katowicz, who's the most widely seen artist you never heard of, or whose name you don't know, who would do these wonderful drawings of essentially architectural features for each of the neighborhoods. So Jan would do the front, and I would do the back. We worked together on kind of what would be highlighted — you know, bungalow in Sherman Park, water tower on the East Side. It's a lot of fun. She was great to work with. So the result was a series of posters. I think we had 27 early on, and when they got published, they really took off. You know, you'd see them in doctors' offices and broadcast TVs and interview rooms. You'd them in the background on TV. But my essays on the back, if they were hung for display, those essays went away forever. It was like writing in the back of a postage stamp and pasting it to an envelope. So what happened eventually was Historic Milwaukee Incorporated, which now has the inventory of the posters, they took them over and they were the publisher of a book called "Milwaukee: City of Neighborhoods," from 2018, I believe. That I worked on again with Jan. So Jan did, I think we added I think seven or eight new ones. Maybe 10. I'm not sure what we got up to. But it was a coffee table book called "Milwaukee: City of Neighborhoods" that won a Gutenberg Award for best design among publishers back in that year. So finally, we had sort of the co-equal status of the posters and the words with a lot of pictures. And that became kind of a grassroots Bible, kind of. It's the closest thing we've had to kind of an encyclopedia of neighborhoods. And the city in the meantime was deciding that it would identify every square inch of the city as something named. I didn't go that far. The ones that were strong, had stars of certain magnitudes — you know, one through four. Some are brighter than others. So Bay View's real bright. Silver City maybe not quite so bright, although it's shining more these days. So it changes. But there are areas that did not have a strong identification by name that I chose to leave silent. But they've gotten a lot of publicity, a lot a usage. We're going on... Those posters are 30 years, 35, 40 years old. But Jan's designs are pretty timeless.

Joy Powers: They're beautiful designs. You'll even see them in neighborhoods on like flags, essentially. How did you decide on the initial neighborhoods? What was it about each of them that, I don't know, gave that kind of community feel? How did you gauge that?

John Gurda: Oh boy, a lot of things. And it's not a science. And I think part of it was there are sort of guineas, you know, like a Walker's Point, you know, like a North Point, the water tower neighborhood. And then there are ones that are not so much. But then you have the ones that in many cases began with kind of social programs of some sort. Harambee, Harambe Ombudsman Project. North Division, North Division Project. So they had kind of taken a slice and kind of, in some ways, institutionalized the character, so it made that official. So those were easy as well. And others, you know, it's kind of, again, like stars. They don't all shine equally brightly, but I did a lot of biking. I probably biked or drove down virtually every street in the city for that project. So I got to know the city about as well, probably better, than a cab driver back then. Or an Uber driver, which they didn't have them back then. So it was a lot fun. It was a hurry-up project. I didn't have long to do each of those neighbors — three or four weeks, so it was research, writing, and then on to the next one, and then dealing with the design elements with Jan, wrestling with those design elements. But she was great to work with. So I have fond memories of that project. And turning that into a book, a six-and-a-half pound book — you know, heavy reading. You know, it was hazardous to carry around, but that was certainly very satisfying as well.

Joy Powers: It's something that in some ways feels small, but also so large and unifying. Was that the goal of making these?

John Gurda: Oh sure, absolutely. Absolutely. I think the goal for DCD and for me was to kind of raise up these grassroots communities and say that these are the building blocks of Milwaukee, you know, that this is who we are, and giving, very consciously, equal weight, equal time, equal words, equal pictures to the Lake Park neighborhood and to the near North Side and near South Side. The old socialist ideal: kind of, "we're all in this together." And I think giving equal treatment and highlighting them all at kind of the same graphic scale, I think, makes that statement pretty powerfully.

Joy Powers: Yeah. Now this is definitely a part of your legacy, but it's... I mean, I guess so much of your legacy here is very tangible, isn't it?

John Gurda: I'd say, yeah. Sure. I'm a product person. I like to make stuff.

Joy Powers: I mean, that in and of itself feels very Milwaukee.

John Gurda: I suppose. I suppose, yeah.

Joy Powers: As someone who works in telling the stories of other people, is legacy something that you think about for yourself?

John Gurda: For me? As I approach 80 in a couple years, you can't help but think of legacy, kind of looking back. And what I feel, you know, more than kind of what I've done that will last, is just a sense of gratitude for having me able to do it for all these years. You know, not that many people get to do things that they would they would choose, and do it for so many years. So I feel very lucky, very privileged to have done it for so long.

Joy Powers: Do you view these posters as part of that kind of visible legacy through the city?

John Gurda: Oh sure, sure. Yeah absolutely. The work is Jan's, but it was it was cooperative. But yeah, I was part of that project and very proudly. Other things, you know, "The Making of Milwaukee," both the book and the documentary series, I think those things, you know? The doc came out in 2006, and they're still showing it on Channel 10. So there's... It's had staying power. And we're working right now with the same team on the making of Black Milwaukee. So we're working on it. Probably a two-hour documentary about the history of African-Americans in Milwaukee, which is a story that has not been told in sufficient depth and detail.

Joy Powers: I'm excited about that. I hadn't heard about.

John Gurda: Yeah, me too.

Joy Powers: Well, John, thank you so much as always for joining us.

John Gurda: My pleasure, Joy.

Xcaret Nuñez: John Gurda is a local historian and author of many books on the region, including "Milwaukee City of Neighborhoods," "The Making of Milwaukee," and the Cream City Chronicles. He spoke with Lake Effect's Joy Powers. Still to come, we'll hear from a Wisconsin musician and birder in this month's episode of Chirp Chat. That's next on Lake Effect, on Milwaukee's NPR. This is Lake Effect on 89.7 WUWM. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Red Wing Blackbirds, Northern Cardinals, and Mourning Doves are all birds you can commonly find in Wisconsin. There are also the titles of songs on "Lifer," an album by Madison-based band, Quokka. Aaron Grych is the lead singer, producer, and songwriter for the indie rock band. He says the new album combines his love for birding and music, while also telling stories through a birdseye view. Grych joins me for this month's Chirp Chat. For this episode of Chirp Chat, I thought it'd be great to highlight Quokka's new album, titled "Lifer," which is written entirely about Wisconsin birds. But before we dive in, I'd love to learn a little more about you, as an artist. Who is Quokka?

Aaron Grych: So Quokka is a name that I started making music under, probably about six or seven years ago. Just the classic bedroom producer, a Focusrite Scarlet and a dream sort of thing. And it's just slowly morphed into what was just a hobby on the side, to have a creative outlet for something to dispel ideas and feelings into a band that's now playing around. And it's fun to see the evolution of just making little tracks in my bedroom that I didn't think anyone was ever gonna listen to, to actually being able to get a group of people together and play out live.

Xcaret Nuñez: So creating a project solely around birds isn't something you've done before. What inspired you to create this album and why did you title it "Lifer?"

Aaron Grych: So I first got the idea for it, I think it was in twofold. A couple of years ago, I released my last album, "Until the Tide Returns." And that was a pandemic album that was very much based, like every other pandemic album, around feelings of existentialism and dread. But I was thinking at the time that I was only really writing about myself and the things that I was feeling and those emotions. And I wanted to make something a little bit more unique than just the usual run of an album of whatever happens to be going on in a person's life at that point in time. I thought about what I could do to make it stand out a little bit more, to make a little more unique and align it with the things that I love as well. And then I was just making an instrumental one day and I needed something before a progression change, just some sort of sound. And I thought, hmm, what if a loon call went in there? What would that sound like? And I put one in, and it sounded better than I thought it would. In. That made me think, "Can I connect these things that I love, birding and music, and make it into one product that is really a reflection of myself?" It's both a deeper dive into that side of things, into the personal side of writing, but also something that's trying to capture interests of other people and feelings and experiences of other peoples as well. The name "Lifer," itself, comes from the fact that I am a Wisconsin Lifer. Been here all my life. Probably will be. And it's the name of the title that you get on the Merlin app when you see a new bird.

Xcaret Nuñez: And I want to ask you a little bit more about that, the personal side of things. Like, what's your relationship to birds? Like, have you always admired them?

Aaron Grych: I was, like many other people, a pandemic birder. I got into it first because, like everybody else, you have a friend that says, "Hey, do you wanna go outside and look at these?" The friend is actually the person who's done all my album art, a very talented watercolorist named Spencer Bierman, and his page, "Birding for Your Convenience," first got me a little bit more interested. But I started going out and going on more walks during that time and just getting out and trying to notice the world around me a little bit more. Subvert my attention. Try to pay more attention. That's really when it started to get to me.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, I think a lot of people could relate to your story and I love the title, "Lifer.".

Aaron Grych: Thank you.

Xcaret Nuñez: And I want to point out that each track in the album, it's named after a bird that you commonly find in Wisconsin. Why did you decide to write about these specific birds?

Aaron Grych: I chose the birds for the songs in the album because I wanted the bird calls that are looped into every instrumental, I wanted them to be ones that were at least somewhat recognizable, like the robin and the loon, the cardinal, to try and have a little bit more relatability to it. As well, there were other things I wanted to fit in there like the noble flamingo, the unofficial city bird of Madison, the name of the soccer team there, and also the flamingos that washed up on Lake Michigan a few years back. But a flamingo call was not something that I would call "recognizable," so I tried to keep it to a frame of knowledge that would be accessible.

Xcaret Nuñez: Yeah, I really love the intentionality behind that. As a listener, when I was listening to the album, I was like, "Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. Like, you're just gonna play the bird call." But I never thought about the accessibility side of things. So with the album coming out soon, is there one track you're most excited for people to hear that we can listen to together?

Aaron Grych: Absolutely, I'd say that track is called "Redwing Blackbird." It was a single that we released before it. That just has this great energy to it that we've been closing out all of our shows with and that I'm really happy for people to hear.

Xcaret Nuñez: Alright, I'm excited, let's listen. [Song plays]. We just listened to "Redwinged Blackbird," by Quokka. And I'm Lake Effect's Xcaret Nuñez speaking with Aaron Grych, the lead singer, producer, and songwriter for the Madison band. So something that I loved about this album is that each song is written through the perspective of the bird the track is named after. What was the songwriting process like for you?

Aaron Grych: Pretty much for all of them, it went in a similar direction, that I would start off with an instrumental that I found to be interesting, and then from there, just try to either fit in lyrics or see where the energy took me, see what kind of vibe I was getting from it, if it was something that was big and energetic and angry, or something that a little bit more laid back, and just try attach stories to it along the way.

Xcaret Nuñez: And where were these, like, stories coming from? Like, right now we listen to "Redwinged Blackbird." How did you know what to write for that bird's perspective? I think one of the lyrics is like, "Crashing on the couch." Like, Red Wing blackbirds aren't crashing on the couch, so can you explain that?

Aaron Grych: That, and a lot of the other lyrics, were trying to make bridges and parallels just between the different experiences that we share with other living things in the world. I love a red-winged blackbird. It's my favorite bird, because for me it marks when spring, warm spring at least, starts to really kick in, but I know that it's not the most loved bird. It's kind of a jerk. I'll admit it. It's known for swooping at people and trying vigorously to protect whatever nest it may be in and just thinking, as a person growing up in this world. And trying to find somewhere that you can call your own, that you can carve out for yourself, is a difficult process as well. And so I have a little bit more empathy now when I'm walking down the street, and I hear a bird start to swoop at my head, just knowing that they're looking for a lot of the same things that we are.

Xcaret Nuñez: I love that. And yeah, you know, yo've got to fend for yourself. And I think of like the bad rep that maybe Brown-headed Cowbirds get too, right? So how long did it take for you to write, record, and produce this album?

Aaron Grych: Way too long. Oh, my God. Probably over the span of about a year-and-a-half to two years, although an instrumental or two along the way is a little bit older than that, even. The writing part was not the most difficult part. We spent a long time in the mix trying to get things right, but songs just kind of kept coming here and there. It was supposed to be a little six-song EP. Then I had another idea, and it became seven, then it became eight, then it become nine, then became ten. And I said, "Okay, whatever. I guess I'll do another album." So it's just letting those find me and allowing the process to be a little bit more drawn out to be able to encapsulate a full record.

Xcaret Nuñez: And you know, not everyone who learns about this album will be a birder, so what do you hope people take away from listening to "Lifer," or why should they tune in?

Aaron Grych: I would say the thing that I would want is just for people to listen. For one, to the album, because I like that. But for two, just in your everyday lives, as you're walking down the street, hearing something that you may recall then from listening to the project, remembering to take moments out to realize that the cacophony that you hear is a bunch of various different birds and different calls and different songs, all with their own little lives that they're living. My one dream would be that, if there's just like one person that listens to it and listens to the same song enough times to recognize that when they're walking down the street, people say like, "Oh, hey, I know that's a cardinal." That makes it all worth it.

Xcaret Nuñez: That's amazing. And that's like, honestly, one of the best feelings, birding by ear. Well, Aaron, before we wrap up, at the end of every Chirp Chat, I love for guests to shine a spotlight on a bird for the month. So I'm wondering what's a bird you'd like to highlight this month.

Aaron Grych: So this month, I might just keep piling it on if nobody said Redwinged Blackbird already.

Xcaret Nuñez: No one has.

Aaron Grych: I just love the little guys, and it's that time of the year where I start to get a little bit annoyed with them, like I mentioned. I love seeing them in early spring, but not so much now, when they're doing their thing. So I'm gonna give them this month to remember the good times with them, when I was happier to see them.

Xcaret Nuñez: Can you describe the bird for our listeners?

Aaron Grych: So it is a black bird with a red wing that is most commonly found near water. And they nest quite a lot with quite a lot of other birds. And they're very territorial about those nests. So when people are walking around during nesting season, if anyone, any shape or size — person, dog, mail carrier, whatever — gets nearby, they're gonna let you know about it. They might swoop at you. They might hit you. They might just yell. But they're a wonderfully, I think, a little bit misunderstood bird.

Xcaret Nuñez: And I would agree with that. Well, Aaron, thanks so much for speaking with me today. It was really fun to learn about your new album. And I'm really excited for people to hear it.

Aaron Grych: Thank you. I'm really excited for people to hear it too. More than anything, I'm just happy to see birding become more and more mainstream with things like this, people like Christian Cooper and Dexter Patterson. It's beautiful to see more people get involved in it.

Xcaret Nuñez: Aaron Grych is the songwriter, producer, and lead singer for the Madison-based band, Quokka. That's Lake Effect for today. I'm Xcaret Nuñez. Audrey Nowakowski, Joy Powers, and Sam Woods join me in producing Lake Effect each week, with help from Graham Thomas. Becky Mortensen is our executive producer, and Emily Files helps edit the show. Jason Rieve is our studio engineer, and Valeria Navarro Villegas is our digital operations manager. Trapper Schoepp wrote our theme music. If you missed any of Lake Effect this week, you can find all of our conversations at wuwm.com. And if you want to take the show on the go, you can download the Lake Effect podcast wherever you get your podcasts. As a heads up, Lake Effect is off next week for a summer break. Instead of the show, you'll hear "Wired to Create." It's a series that examines why people, in an age of AI and automation, still have the desire to make things with their hands and imaginations. That's on next week for Lake Effect. But for today, thanks so much for joining us on listener-supported 89.7 WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR.