So much of the college experience takes place outside the classroom. On this show, Chancellor Gibson, Vice Chancellor Kelly Haag and Associate Vice Chancellor Kay Eilers tell David Lee about the many ways UWM supports the student journey. They also share tips for choosing the right college.
Transcript:
This is the Chancellor's Report from 89.7 WUWM Milwaukee's NPR, featuring Thomas Gibson, Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
And here's your host, WUWM General Manager, David Lee.
David Lee: Hello, and thank you for joining the UWM Chancellor's Report here on 89.7 WUWM. I'm David Lee, General Manager of the station, and I'm here today, as always, with UWM Chancellor Thomas Gibson. Hi, Tom.
Thomas Gibson: David, how are you?
David Lee: I'm doing great. I'm really, really excited about our conversation today, which promises to be a really bouncy conversation because I know we're talking about a subject that you, that is close to your heart.
Thomas Gibson: Absolutely. We're talking about a subject that is central to my world. It's about my why and why my colleagues and I do the work that we do. And that is, of course, in support of our students. So, I can't wait to dive in.
David Lee: This is great. So, your background, as you said, is about, is in student affairs and academic affairs, of course. Can you talk about how, about what that encompasses and how'd you end up in it?
Thomas Gibson: Absolutely. So, when you think of student affairs, think about those experiences, those programs, those activities, and services that largely occur outside of the classroom. So, think residence life. Think student clubs and organizations. Think athletics. Think our counseling center or our student health center, those services that are critical to supporting student success and their journey at our respective colleges. And when one thinks about academic affairs, that also includes academic support services, ensuring that students have the appropriate support so they can be successful in their respective course. Think also about the instructional experience, the work of our faculty. And I would also suggest folks consider high-impact practices, such as undergraduate research and study abroad. So, these two careers focus, if you will, has really allowed me to fully understand what students are needing to navigate our university. And I started my career actually in academic affairs, but leading a program that provided student services. And the more that I had that experience, it really opened up a door for me into student affairs.
David Lee: I think what's so interesting about that is when we think about college, we think about classroom, right? You're in the classroom, you're learning, you're studying, you're taking tests. But when you surround everything around college, that's like 98% of other stuff. And that's what we're talking about, right?
Thomas Gibson: Absolutely.
David Lee: That's really great. So, who'd you bring to the show today?
Thomas Gibson: So, I have two colleagues with me today. The first is Kelly Haag, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs, and we have Kay Eilers, Associate Vice Chancellor for Strategic Enrollment Management and Student Success. Big titles, long titles.
David Lee: Welcome, Kelly and Kay. I think that introduction really kind of frames up kind of what we're going to talk about. But sort of reflecting a little bit about what the chancellor just shared, right, about the big 98%. How does your role, your roles, respective roles kind of support that big pie?
Kelly Haag: So, this is Kelly. I think one of the things that student affairs provides for our students is what happens outside of the classroom, which can be anything, right? It could be a student who's in crisis. We can see students who just, are needing some friends, a friendly face. And so, I think, really, it's being aware of what's happening in the classroom is also really important because if it's all just what's outside of the classroom, and we do see sometimes the students kind of get a little distracted, right, by the fun that we're providing on campus. But really it's linking those two things up, right? Saying, “okay, you're having a rough day today. This is not the day to decide you're going to stop going to class or drop out. Let's pause, let's get you connected correctly.” And so, I think in student affairs, this is the kind of work that we love to do, which is we want to plug you into all the resources that we have on campus. We want it to be a really meaningful time for you here, right? When we all think about our undergraduate experience, no offense to any of my colleagues in the classroom, but I'm remembering those experiences that happened outside the classroom. Those are the things that have really stuck with me. And so, we take that really seriously because it is, it runs the gamut. It's the fun stuff, it's the hard stuff, and we're here for it.
Kay Eilers: Awesome. Kelly, you couldn't have said it better. And Chancellor, I have to say, as you were talking through the variety of experiences you had as you were coming up, checking every single box between the work that happens in Kelly's area and the work that happens in mine and how all of those intersect. The connection from what students are learning in the classroom into everything that immediately surrounds it is why I'm here, why I do what I do, because we want to make sure that classroom experience is front and center. But it doesn't stop when the class period ends. It's all about how to get students connected to the resources, the experiences that exist to really maximize their time at UWM and their time after UWM to really make it all work together. And I think we both spend a lot of time thinking about those things and empowering our teams to drive in those spaces.
Thomas Gibson: And I would also argue that the work of student affairs and our colleagues in enrollment management is to also help students get connected to each other, as well as the institution, really creating a community of learners on campus.
David Lee: How do we define student success, right? Because when I think about student success, right, I think about Did I get a 4.0 grade point average, right? Like that's, I have a very limited frame of reference. So how do we define it?
Kay Eilers: I'd love to start. I suspect if you went around, all three of us would give you a slightly different answer. And I think that's because student success is about what success means to that student in that moment.
David Lee: Yeah, tailored, yeah.
Kay Eilers: We want for students to come to us and to leave with the credential to have a family thriving career, right? What does that individual student need and want and what does success look like for them in that moment? And then once they achieve that, what does success look like in the next step? So, I bet if the three of us all talked about it, we'd all have a slightly different take on it.
Thomas Gibson: Agreed. When I think of student success, I think first, and foremost, about opportunities for student learning, student engagement, the student experience, and ensuring that students have opportunities to not just attend our university, but rather to have students experience our university. So, that also leads to student retention, student persistence, and student degree completion.
Kelly Haag: I'm going to tell a quick story.
David Lee: I love it.
Kelly Haag: We did a kind of a makeup graduation for the students who didn't have a chance to graduate during COVID. And I'll tell you when it started, I thought, “Oh gosh, this is a Sunday in April. It's the first really nice day I want to be there, but...”and I sat there and it is still the most meaningful commencement ceremony I've ever been a part of. And I cried through half of it, which is not necessarily my style. But there was one particular student who I always think about who got up on the stage and stood there, put his arms back, his head back, and said, “I made it.” And when I think about student success, I think about for that person, in that moment, they were articulating, “I overcame”, in their mind, right, who knows what it was? “I overcame this. I challenged myself here. I succeeded when I wasn't sure I could.” And so that, to me, encapsulates, right, that individual journey. But then for how many of our students and probably for us, how life-changing it was, right? And so that to me is student success. It's what it is for that student. But that moment in time of...school is hard. College is hard. We're learning things. Learning is hard. But overcoming that to say, “I did it” is what it's all about.
David Lee: That's so inspiring. And I think in some ways, leading into my next question, right, which is, how does student success and student life kind of feed into this tripartite mission at the university, right? Because for those of you who have been following along, right, the three-part mission of the university is to provide incredible access to education, incredible top-tier research, and being community-engaged, right? So how does student life drive and student success sort of drive that three-part mission?
Kelly Haag: I love that question.
Thomas Gibson: You should start. You should start.
Kay Eilers: I love that question. You know, Chancellor, you referenced right off the top about undergraduate research. Undergraduate research is an example of experiential learning. And I think the experiential learning that UWM students can do completely embodies our tripartite mission. So, we're thinking about research that our students can get engaged in, check, research. We're thinking about how they can engage in research that is out in the community and impacting our community. And we're creating access as early as we possibly can to those experiences. That's what UWM is all about. If we go beyond research, maybe we're talking about other types of experiential learning; study abroad. We're talking about internships, we're talking about all of these different types of experiences that students can create to yes, earn their degree, but really develop that experience, design that experience that works for them, that all fits within the mission of UWM.
Thomas Gibson: I could not agree more. And if I were to add, I would say that students entering our university through an access mission and benefiting from a Research One, a top tier research institution is the perfect example of student success. Really leveraging the power of our institution to provide opportunities and experiences for students that are admitted as part of our access mission.
Kelly Haag: I think that my colleagues said it quite well. I would maybe also point out It starts right at the beginning, whether it's before students arrive on campus, but I'll speak specifically to when students arrive on campus. Our teams really do a lot to help them get acquainted to the city really quickly. Because we know that for our students, and I can actually relate because I had a similar undergraduate experience, I wanted to explore something new. I wanted to feel like I was part of a vibrant community. That's what Milwaukee is. But for some of our students, it can be kind of intimidating. You know, if they're feeling like they're coming to a big city, if they're not local, or even if they are, maybe they've not really kind of gone out of their neighborhoods a lot. Like this is our chance to say, “Let's show you the really cool things. Let's bring you down to Bradford Beach. Let's take you on a boat cruise in the river. Let's get you connected to the museum.” And this is just kind of an entry point, right? So, it feels very accessible and just like what we do. And this is, it's a way for us to kind of expand the access. And then once you can see how “Milwaukee is a really great city and UWM is helping me kind of make the most of my time here”, that's kind of phase one. Because, then, it's like your junior year, maybe and your graduate years, you're doing that stuff out in the community, like what Kay said. But it begins at the beginning, right? Like we're part of the city and there's so many really wonderful things that you can be a part of.
David Lee: How does, how does that sense of being able to tailor the interventions to students influence the kinds of support that you have? And also, like, what would you say is different maybe about our students here at UWM that may kind of shape the way the supports that you all might be providing?
Kelly Haag: So, we have 43% of our undergraduate students are first-generation students. We know our chancellor is a first-generation student. There is a particular, there's an unspoken curriculum of college. And so, it's really important for us knowing that nearly half of our students don't have maybe family members who've had that experience of navigating a campus. So, we have services specifically to support students in navigating like how to college. How do you make it through? And I know Kay could probably add to these things as well, but It's really important that we're in tune with who our students are. And that we ask them what they like and what helps them. But, also, that we're paying attention to research that's around, in the student affairs field of this is what we know works. So, that we're going to do more of this. And so, balancing what you've said in terms of tailored experiences. We also have, 21,000 students, right? And so, there are pieces of this that also need to be scaled, right? And so it's balancing those two things.
Kay: Yeah, I would add to that, that we've intentionally designed programs and services to meet the needs of most folks while having points for entry to really customize things. So, I will take our admitted student day programs, which we just wrapped up in March. One of my favorite things to ask a student and their family as they're coming to Admitted Student Day is just, “What do you want to learn today?” because oftentimes they don't know exactly what question they want to ask, but there's something underlying that they want to see a little bit more of, they want to do a little bit more, and nobody ever tells me they don't want to see anything or they don't want to learn anything. There's always a question that pops up. And so, it's really about the faculty and staff at UWM being well positioned to ask the questions and create the spaces for folks to be curious, for folks to know that it's okay to not know. And we want to position students to be able to advocate and explore a little bit.
Thomas Gibson: I think my colleagues said it well, David.
David Lee: Yeah. I'm, you know, I'm really struck though, Chancellor, as two of us who are, I'm not a first generation, but I'm a first generation American college student. And I remember when I showed up at college, I didn't know what left or I didn't know left or right. To your point that like there I didn't know how to college and I almost got kicked out. I got put on almost academic probation. I made it. I got through. But I think that but those that sort of cultural learning, right, is really it's powerful, right? Because if nobody's there to teach you and like, you know, your whole my whole high school life was just like, “Get the grades and you'll be fine.” If you don't know how to do the other stuff, you can't perform, you can't be a successful student, right?
Kay Eilers: Well, I really look at the work that Kelly's team does, my team does, and our colleagues across the institution. We have to position the supports and services in a manner that students can't miss them. You shouldn't have to know the question to ask or the right department. Open a door, talk to somebody, and we can position the student to get the answers to their questions. And I think that's really a mindset that we have to really embody. And we've made a long, we've made a lot of progress in that space.
Thomas Gibson: I totally agree. I would describe our campus community as extremely student-centric. And focus, there are just so many colleagues on campus that are just awaiting for their opportunity or next opportunity to answer a question for a student to ensure that they are on the right path for success. And I really found it just energizing to be around such colleagues.
David Lee: A lot of higher ed experience here. How has student needs changed over the years? Like what are the trends?
Kelly Haag: So I'm happy to start. I like to say that, and it's true, I have worked in higher, I have worked on a college campus since I was a college student. I've never left, started out being a resident assistant. That was kind of my journey. And so I feel like I have seen a lot, right, in that time. And the two things that really stick out to me in terms of things that have kind of trends and things that particularly on our campus, are pretty large concerns for us as students' mental health, right? Mental health in general is something that we're thankfully talking about a lot more just in society. But for our students, like especially the class that's with us now, they're just coming out of COVID, right? They're still, their high school career was quite disrupted. And so that is a factor in their mental health. And then the other thing that we definitely see on our campus is students whose basic needs are not always met. So it could be, you know, they don't have secure housing on a regular basis. They are not really sure that they are going to have enough food for the week. These are, you can do all kinds of things. You can be a 4.0 student and have a lot of support, but if you don't have, a warm bed to sleep in, that is really going to be disruptive. And so, we do have a lot of services and supports on campus and connections within the community to try to help students navigate that. But it is a very real concern. And so those are some of the trends and, and things that we watch very closely.
Kay Eilers: The one thing that I'll add to that, and yes to everything you said, Kelly, is students are looking for connection and belonging with their peers. And it's perhaps a little harder than it used to be. And so, a lot of the work that we're doing with our programs and supports are helping students, yes, connect to us and services, but to connect with each other. And this happens in the classroom. Our faculty and instructional staff do such a good job of trying to create environments where students can connect with each other in the classroom and then immediately outside the classroom. That's where our teams kind of dive in and try to create those experiences.
Thomas Gibson: And another observation that I have is this notion of competing for students' time. You know, we program robust opportunities to engage students and keep them connected, but they have various interests, a number of things that are also requesting of their time. So, just trying to be as creative as possible to ensure that we are keeping students connected and engaged in the life of the university has been really top of mind for us lately.
David Lee: Yeah.
Kelly Haag: If I might add, we have, I think at least 30% of our students are caregivers of some sort, whether that's parents, that they are parents, or maybe they're caregiving somebody in their family, that, you know, adding to the competing for their time, they have real, real responsibilities. So, these are also things that we have to consider in terms of the, We have a wide variety of students on campus.
Kay Eilers: I'll add that ups our responsibility to make sure that what we're offering and what we're putting out there is a great use of our students' time. I mean, students are smarter than they've ever been in terms of questioning the value for their time. And so that's back to us. And that's a challenge that we embrace head on every day.
Thomas Gibson: And I'll offer one final thought on it.
David Lee: I love it. I told you this was a great conversation.
Thomas Gibson: One final thought on this topic. And that is how we communicate with students. Students are constantly sharing with us how they would prefer to receive messages from us best. And it seems to change year over year. So, we're constantly working hard to ensure that we are crafting messages with the appropriate medium that reaches students best.
David Lee: So, decision day is right around the corner. It's about a month away. In short, what advice would you give students and families about choosing a college?
Kelly Haag: Everybody looks at me. I can't wait. I can't wait to share my advice. Well, I talk with a lot of students and families that are narrowing things down and deciding. And what I try to point to is, experience and look for the place that you're going to feel home. You're going to feel at home because hopefully you're going to spend your next four, you know, 4 1/2 years there pursuing that degree, earning that degree and being successful. So, look for the place that feels like it's home, like you're going to be able to connect, find the resources, the services, the academics that you're looking for. A lot of that is about connecting to the people. So, really understanding what those elements look like, and they won't go wrong.
David Lee: Yeah. And choose UWM.
Kelly Haag: And choose UWM. Oh, that's underlying the whole thing, right?
Thomas Gibson: Each and every time, choose UWM. You can never go wrong.
David Lee: Don't leave it to the radio manager to put that out there.
Kelly Haag: I was trying to be a little...
David Lee: So, Chancellor, we talked a lot about a lot of the things happening insofar as student affairs and student success here. I just want to start with you, sort of, I know this is an issue that's really, really close to your heart, but thinking about your own college experience as a first-generation student, like what was the most critical to your success?
David Lee: I think having opportunities to participate in student organizations and ultimately becoming a part of that executive board and ultimately serving in leadership of those organizations was really critical for my own personal and leadership development. I discovered that I could be compelling when I needed to be. I found that I absolutely love helping others achieve their personal goals. And I learned that we all have an obligation to help our peers as much as possible to have some fantastic experiences, experiences that I believe was enjoyable for myself.
David Lee: Yeah. I think the insight there, right, is take advantages of these experiences that your college and your institution is, is providing, because I think, as they say, right, you have only one shot to get through.
Thomas Gibson: Absolutely. And I would also add that there's learning and doing and being of service to others. And that's something that really stuck with me.
What an incredible discussion. Like I said, it was going to be a fun and bouncy conversation. I know, again, this is a subject that's really close to your heart and really, really came through, Chancellor. As our time is drawing to an end, which I'm really sad about, we like to wrap up our show by having everybody share what was a cool thing that happened that they did or that happened to you within the last month. Chancellor, let's start with you and then we'll go around the horn.
Thomas Gibson: Only if I can share two experiences.
David Lee: You know, it's only because you're everybody's boss, that it's okay.
Fantastic. So, just last week, I had the opportunity to attend research in the rotunda at the state capitol, and UWM had six students present their research, all undergraduate students. And they were so impressive, David. And one student in particular, she presented a study on inclusive experiences within the theater. And it was really just eye-opening how being more intentional about ensuring each and everyone can participate and everyday types of activities, it was just really fascinating to see the student study this area and share some of her recommendations. The second experience I had occurred just yesterday.
David Lee: Yesterday.
Thomas Gibson: I had an opportunity to meet with two of our women volleyball student athletes. They showed me a few volleyball moves and I decided to stick with my day job.
David Lee: I think you may have made the right choice. Yes. Kay, how about you?
Kay Eilers: Well, I already alluded to this, but we just wrapped up our admitted student day season. And just last week, I got to be part of the largest admitted student day we had. We welcomed over 600 admitted students to campus last week, Saturday. It was incredible. Nothing is better than seeing the glowing faces of these admitted students and their families as they walk through our Panther tunnel and realize, like, “I'm doing this. I'm committing to UWM.” It's amazing.
David Lee: I love it.
Kay Eilers: Never gets old.
David Lee: Kelly.
Kelly Haag: So, mine's going to be a little bit more intimate. One of the cool things about this stage of the school year is seeing our student leaders who have kind of made it through the first hump, the first semester hump and have, We've explored their leadership skills, had some challenges. I had a meeting with our student government leadership last week where they were kind of working through some thorny issues. And I could see in a couple places, and I'm looking at the chancellor because he was part of that meeting as well, where they disagreed with us a little bit and challenged us and asked some really important questions in an appropriate, caring way where they were really kind of balancing their roles as student leaders with us as administrators. And it was so affirming and just very, very meaningful because they would not have probably done that maybe three or four months ago. And so just to know that this is what that journey looks like and that they're taking their work so seriously, it was just really affirming and just a really great discussion.
David Lee: I love it. That's so great. And I gotta say that like, it's not, it's often that hosting these conversations is the highlight of my month. And this one particularly is so, right? Because seeing that there is such an incredibly committed group of people who are so committed to the success of so many of our communities, younger, middle, and older students trying to get through this experience and to and to learn and to engage with the community and to do all the things that college provides them I think is incredibly inspiring. Thank you all so much for sharing your giftedness with us and your time with us. This was great.
Thomas Gibson, Kelly Haag, Kay Eilers: Thank you. Thank you, David.
You've been listening to the Chancellor's Report featuring Thomas Gibson, Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. If you'd like more information, go to uwm.edu/chancellor.
