Throughout our lives, we benefit from being around people of different ages and learning from various perspectives. This episode of Real Stories MKE features stories from Venice Williams, Tony Anderson, Su Rablin and Sienna Taylor. Real Stories MKE is hosted by Kim Shine and Joel Dresang with support from producer Jasmine Gonzalez and audio engineer Sam Woods.
Episode transcript below from Ex Fabula's Real Stories MKE series.
Joel Dresang
Welcome to Real Stories MKE brought to you as part of Ex Fabula's mission to connect Milwaukee through real stories. I'm Joel Dresang.
Kim Shine
And I'm Kim Shine. Ex Fabula believes that everybody has personal stories worth sharing, and they do workshops to help community members build their skills, and they hold StorySlams, where people can tell their truest stories on stage. In this episode of Real Stories MKE, we are sharing four of those remarkable tales.
Joel Dresang
And our theme this episode is "Generations." Throughout our lives, in families, at school and work, in our communities, we benefit from being around people of different ages. Older generations offer the wisdom of experience. Younger generations provide fresh perspectives and curiosity. Together, they allow us a diversity of contexts and viewpoints. They help us see how we fit in and how we can move on. You know, Kim, I grew up never knowing any of my grandparents, so it was—
Kim Shine
So crazy to me.
Joel Dresang
—really, yeah, it was, but it was, so it's really special for me that my kids got to know my parents, and so I got to see that relationship between grandparents and grandchildren—
Kim Shine
Yeah.
Joel Dresang
—even though I was a generation removed from it. But, and though my parents are gone now, my kids knew them long enough that they've, they've got stories to tell, and that's a lot of what generational exchange is anyway, is storytelling.
Kim Shine
And I love that, because even though I got to know three of my grandparents—
Joel Dresang
Oh, that's good.
Kim Shine
—I didn't have a lot of time with them, so I have stories of just getting to know them, or maybe stories from my cousins or whatnot. But I really find the generational gap being filled in my life through seniors in the community or just folks that I meet. I find that I have good bonds with them.
Joel Dresang
Yeah, the generations aren't just our family.
Kim Shine
Yeah, that's so true.
Joel Dresang
Our first story about generations comes from Venice Williams. From penny candy to poetry to life lessons, she says her uncles left their mark on her. Venice shared her story at a 2025 AfterDark: For the Culture. That's an ongoing collaboration between Ex Fabula and HYFIN, Radio Milwaukee's urban alternative station. Here's Venice.
Venice Williams
My father was the oldest of seven children, and as much as I love my Aunt Rosemary, tomorrow is Valentine's Day, and so for the culture, this is an ode to uncles. An ode to my five uncles who are still alive and well. Wayne—that's not his name—Wade. Wade, Billy, Chris, Greg, and Dean. My five uncles, who taught me first what it means to have a man love you. When they would give me the penny candy that I wanted for my Tootsie Rolls, when they would give me the quarters that I needed for my Archie comic books, when they would say, "Venice, do you have all of your jacks and your balls, or do you need more?" My uncles, the Williams brothers, who were so fine and could sing so well, and in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania, and the projects of Whitaker, it was a circle, and they would just walk the circle, singing to the women, singing to the girls. And I would be there with my friends, and we'd be jumping rope and not double-dutching, because I can't double-dutch, but we'd be jumping rope. [laughter]
Venice Williams
And my Uncle Greg, or my Uncle Dean, would come by with the latest female on their hand, and would say, "Venice, this is"—pick a name—"She might be your aunt one day." And she would just smile.
Venice Williams
And I would think, with my nine-year-old self, "That ain't gonna happen. I don't know what you're smiling about."
Venice Williams
And then three weeks later, I would still be there with my friends because I'm visiting my grandmother, and she would come by, and she would say, "Have you seen your Uncle Greg?"
Venice Williams
"No, I haven't seen my Uncle Greg."
Venice Williams
"Well, when you see him, can you tell him that I'm looking for him?" And I would think, he knows you're looking for him. That's why you can't find my Uncle Greg.
Venice Williams
And as I got older, those Williams brothers, as I developed these things that I carried around since age 10, and I would get curvy, and I would be out, and you couldn't tell me I wasn't cute, and I would be somewhere, and one of my uncles would show up and would say to whomever and nobody: "And who the hell asked you? You know, that's my niece."
Venice Williams
And everywhere I went, it didn't matter. "Aren't you a Williams?"
Venice Williams
"No, no, man, you can't touch her, talk to her. You can't touch her because she's a Williams." And I had to go to dating in the suburbs and on college campuses.
Venice Williams
But my uncles, who bought me my first poetry book of Nikki Giovanni, Cotton Candy, you know that book? My uncles who introduced me to the beautiful sounds of Minnie Riperton—and then I stole that album, and I still have it at home. My uncles who, when they went to Norfolk University and the University of Pittsburgh, they would bring me those books, and they would say, "These are for you." And they didn't trade them back for the money they could get. They brought them to me for who I could become. And so, this is for the culture and for my uncles. For my uncles who taught me that, no matter what, love self first, love all of those who love you, and do your best to not take any mess from anybody. And so, this is an ode to Wade and Billy and Chris and Greg and Dean. Thank you. [applause]
Joel Dresang
That was Venice Williams. She spoke at AfterDark: For the Culture, an event that highlights true stories from people of color. And we have an update from Venice. We like it when we get updates from our storytellers.
Kim Shine
Oh yeah.
Joel Dresang
Venice says, "My family throughout the country loved listening to this segment when I shared it with them. It brought back so many memories for them and sparked some heartfelt family conversations. Thanks so much for the opportunity. I hope to grace your stage again."
Kim Shine
Oh, I hope she does, too.
Joel Dresang
I would look forward to that, yes.
Kim Shine
I love Venice. She's amazing. Now, whether they know it or not, sometimes another generation can have a profound impact on who we are and who we strive to be. That's part of the story of our next teller, Tony Anderson, who spoke at a 2016 Ex Fabula StorySlam with the theme, "Forgotten." Here's Tony.
Tony Anderson
Hi there. I do not have delusions of grandeur. I'm a second-grade teacher. [laughter]
Tony Anderson
So, I was born in 1964 and that was way before ultrasound was commonly used to determine the sex of a child. And so, my mom's obstetrician used the age-old practice of birth weight to tell what kind of child they were going to have. Now, at five pounds eight ounces, he assured my parents that after two boys, they were about to have a little girl. In fact, they were so certain that they didn't even pick out a boy's name. And so, when he announced, sheepishly, that they in fact had three boys, they had to think as quickly as they could what they were going to name me. And so, they thought back, and they said, "Last week, our favorite golfer, Champagne Tony Lema, won the British Open!" And that's how I became Tony Lee.
Tony Anderson
So, my grandmother was also excited about the prospect of having this granddaughter, and she went out and she bought this 16-inch plastic, pliable baby doll. Now, when I didn't quite fit the bill, she wasn't, she was undeterred, and she decided she was going to give it to me anyway, much to the chagrin of my father, who had some very traditional ideas about what boys and girls should have. And he thought that a GI Joe was probably the closest a boy should have to holding a doll in his hand. And apparently, if you're going to give a boy a doll, it should have a gun or kung fu grip or something. [laughter]
Tony Anderson
So, she gave it to me, and I loved it. I slept with it. I took it everywhere that I went and she was so proud. She would look at me and she would say, "Oh, someday you are going to be a great father." Well, as I grew up, I loved playing with kids, and when my mom would invite the neighborhood women over for parties and things like that, I always got to be the babysitter. That's babysitter. It's the way that mom gets you out from being underfoot while she's got her friends around. And when my grandmother would come around, she'd look and she'd say, "Wow, look at you. You are going to be a great father someday."
Tony Anderson
Eventually, I got into high school, and one of the women across the street said, "You know what? Would you like to really babysit my son and my two daughters?"
Tony Anderson
And I said, "Yeah, I'd love to!" I was so excited because I was finally going to have a paying job. And it wasn't long after that that I became the go-to babysitter of the neighborhood. Again, much to the chagrin of my father, who didn't really see that as an appropriate job for his teenage boy.
Tony Anderson
Once again, my grandmother came to my side and she said, "This is going to make you a great father someday." So, I went on and I did that and enjoyed it and had three great years of babysitting kids.
Tony Anderson
In time, my grandmother started to change a little bit. She became agitated, she became forgetful, and started losing items around the house, and we realized that she couldn't take care of her home anymore, and so we moved her into a nursing home. And on the weekends, on Sundays, we would pick her up and take her to church, and then my wife and I would bring her back to our house, and she'd have lunch with us. And one day, we realized she didn't know where she was. And I turned to her and I said, "Grandmother, do you know who we are?"
Tony Anderson
And her ever-present smile faded a little bit, and she had this look of confusion. And finally, she brightened back up, and she said, "Yes, dear, you're my special friends." And my wife and I looked at each other and decided that was close enough to the truth.
Tony Anderson
Well, eventually she couldn't leave the nursing home anymore. And my wife and I finally had a child of our own, and when he was four months old, we took him to her, what was going to be her last birthday party. And as I sat there across the table from her with my son in my lap, she looked over at me suspiciously, and then she turned to my mom and she said, "Are you sure he knows what he's doing with that baby?" [laughter] My grandmother had truly forgotten me. [applause]
Kim Shine
And that was Tony Anderson. Hey, Joel.
Joel Dresang
What?
Kim Shine
Are you ready for some UltraShorts?
Joel Dresang
Oh, yes, always.
Kim Shine
So UltraShorts, for those who don't know, or you just need a reminder, if you go to a Slam and you don't want to get on stage, but you still want to be part of the show, you fill out this little slip and you write a short story on it that the host will read.
Joel Dresang
I've got one right here. It's from Anonymous: "Generations go beyond genetics. My most influential matriarch was a one-time neighbor and landlady, and I hope to pass her legacy to my niece, who's the daughter of my best friend."
Joel Dresang
Thank you. Here's one from Megan: "Someday, I will give Olivia a gold necklace, a chain of gold links that my great grandmother brought over from Lebanon. At one point, these were used as currency. I'll be excited to pass it along, but I think I'm equally excited that she has my eyes and smile."
Kim Shine
I love that. That's definitely how my life is working out. This is from Denae: "One day, my mama will be glad she had me. One day, I will understand why she don't. One day, the fact that mother is not loving their children, generation after generation won't feel so normal. One day, that I love my child means that chain has been broken, and the culture of love will be true."
Kim Shine
That's really nice. And I love this one coming up too. This is from Reina: "My father didn't learn to be a father until he became a grandfather. It's beautiful to see he is truly grand."
Joel Dresang
I'm glad he got a second chance, and I'm glad she was able to witness that.
Kim Shine
And she appreciates it.
Joel Dresang
Yes.
Kim Shine
That's awesome.
Joel Dresang
Our next storyteller is Su Rablin. Su reminds us that influence isn't just passed down. Very often, older generations benefit from the young. Su shared her story at an Ex Fabula StorySlam in 2025. Here's Su.
Su Rablin
This isn't my first time on stage, it's my second, but this theme tonight really hit me when I saw it came out, because I have a story that's really near and dear to my heart.
Su Rablin
Fifteen years old, fell in love, and the end of that summer, I had to go tell my parents I was pregnant. Yeah, Catholic, too at the time. Kind of reject some of that now. But I never expected it, just, you know, like I said, I was in love. It was quite a journey. I chose not to have an abortion, and it was, I was going to carry the child. Initially, we did want to keep her and get married, but at 15, I wasn't even able to. My parents couldn't have even given permission, which they wouldn't have anyway, because we asked. And I do think that's a good thing. So, the choice at that time was to surrender her for adoption. I did have a healthy baby girl, eight pounds, three and a half ounces, 21 inches. I only saw her once, and then she was gone. And you just can't even imagine, unless somebody can imagine what that feels like. It's so powerful and it's so hard, and it left a hole in my heart, as big as big could be.
Su Rablin
Now, it was kind of unusual that her dad and I got married, and we were married for 31 years. Yeah, not anymore. You know, some things come to an end after 31 years, and that's okay, it you know, it was done. It's run its course. So, we ended up, and we were in Milwaukee, we moved out of state, and before we did that, my husband said, if you want to try and find her before we go, we could do that, because we never wanted to interrupt her growth, her being a kid, any of that. I mean, I heard stories about birth parents that came in on adoptive parents, and it just killed me. So, I really respected the adoption, the adoptive parents, that adoption triad is amazing thing, whether you're a birth parent and adopted, an adoptive parent, or the adoptee. Lot a lot of yourself goes into it.
Su Rablin
So, I was thrilled that I kind of, that he brought up the fact that, why don't we try and find her? So, I wrote her a letter, and she responded to the letter within about a week and a half. But I have to take you back just a bit, and that is to help you understand why it was so important for me to try and find her, because way back when, in 1972, '73 actually, adoption was completely different. Everybody—anybody remember the old days where they were completely closed adoptions? Yeah, so you know, open adoptions now are one thing, and you can have a relationship. Possibly, not easy, I can't imagine that it would be easy, but you can have an imagine in—a relationship with that, that child as they grow up, not back then. Everything was sealed. Everything was a secret. I moved away from home. Couldn't be around home, too embarrassing, society, I couldn't go to my high school, you know, couldn't do a lot of things. But I did get my education, and I was like, went back my junior year to high school, so that was my whole sophomore year. So that's why that hole in my heart was so big. I didn't know if we'd ever see her. We did have papers that were submitted to the state to do it.
Su Rablin
And, you know, once she contacted us, and we found out that she was open to meeting us, we did it. We met her for dinner one evening. When she walked into that restaurant, the hole in my heart just healed immediately. And I'm really happy to say that I have a relationship with her now. She lives in Milwaukee, about four miles away from me. We see each other all the time, and just recently, I think she started reconnecting with her dad too, which I'm not worrying about, that. We have a great relationship. So, it's tough, but it's great. So, I have to go now, and anybody want to talk more about adoption, I'd be happy to. [applause]
Joel Dresang
That was Su Rablin. Hey, Kim, how about some more UltraShorts?
Kim Shine
Let's go.
Joel Dresang
I've got one here from Mary Lou Mileta: "Last summer, I visited the ancestral villages of my grandparents in Slovakia. After many years of genealogical research, I met family members previously unknown, and I visited the graves of my great-grandparents. I connected with my ancestors."
Kim Shine
Nice. And here's one from Tim Scott: "The Harambee neighborhood is where I grew up. My aunts, uncles, grandma and granddad all lived in this neighborhood. I got my hair cut, went to school. I'm happy to see our neighborhood come back to life."
Joel Dresang
Sweet.
Kim Shine
And Joel, our final generations story comes from Sienna Taylor. Sienna spoke at a 2019 Slam that was part of a collaboration between Ex Fabula and the Wisconsin Black Historical Society and Museum. Sienna shared how family stories and research led her to discover the influence of a relative she had never met. Here's Sienna.
Sienna Taylor
So, my story is about my great grandmother. Her name is Elizabeth Walker Hassan Williams, and I'll kind of explain a little bit more how she got all those names. But first, I've never met her. She died before I was born, but I figured out in a recent cookout my family had how much I actually know her.
Sienna Taylor
So, we had a cookout, you know, like a normal family cookout. It was summertime. It was my parents, my sister, my grandparents. My grandma was cooking. My uncle was cussing some kid out. There was dancing, you know, Frankie Beverly was blaring in the background. Everybody was telling stories about how, you know, this cousin got a whooping, and how this sister got a whooping for telling on that cousin. And all these stories were going around.
Sienna Taylor
So, my dad proceeded to tell a story about how I was kind of labeled, like, the family activist from a very young age. I never really thought about this or myself as an activist, but he started to talk about, like in chronological order, all of these acts of social justice that I did at a very young age. Like first, in third grade, I was about eight or nine years old. I took on the brave task of being an activist for Saving the Rainforest. My class had bought, actually, a portion of the Amazon rainforest, and I guilted my family, my friends, even neighbors, to the point of tears about conserving water. I don't know if you've heard of, "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down." I guilted everybody into doing that, because Saving the Rainforest was really important in third grade.
Sienna Taylor
In seventh grade, in middle school, I was in my social studies class, and in social studies, we learned about different religions. And I had this teacher who was teaching about different religions. He really didn't like the Muslim religion. I don't know if Fox News was around back then, but he probably watched a lot of it. But in retrospect, he was spewing a lot of non-facts about the Muslim religion, facts that are things that I just knew weren't true. So, after that, me and some of the classmates got together and we organized a Religious Appreciation Day, where we each brought in different foods from different regions of the world that represented all these religions, including Islam, that we wanted to pay homage to.
Sienna Taylor
Ninth grade, high school. We moved to Georgia, a suburb right outside of Atlanta called Kennesaw. And I was new to Georgia. Didn't really know a lot of people, but I noticed that there weren't any girls of color on the basketball cheerleading squad. So, I was like, I got to do something about this. I have no interest in cheerleading, but I gathered two other girls, and we tried out solely, like completely, as a message, a statement for inclusion. We got on the team. I didn't know that that was going to happen. I wasn't prepared. [laughter] So my mom ended up having to pay for us to go to cheer camp, and I still hear about that.
Sienna Taylor
Eleventh grade, I was in my English class, American Literature. We were supposed to read Huckleberry Finn as a required reading. I flipped through it, and there's like the N word all through there. So, I was like, I am boycotting this. I am not going to read this. This is totally offensive. I got written up for insubordination. I had, I was suspended from school. Fast forward, a month later, we had to do a group project. So, my revenge against my teacher was to do our group project based on the Civil Rights Era, me and three of my classmates, most who were White, came dressed up as Black Panthers, beret, turtlenecks, the whole nine yards, right?
Sienna Taylor
So, my dad's telling all these stories, and I'm just like, wow. I just kind of knew that stuff happened, but I didn't really look at it as like a, me being an activist. Well, then I found out about my great-grandmother. Her name was Elizabeth Walker Hassan Williams. I found out that my great-grandmother, in the early 1900s, in Pennsylvania, had a business school degree as a Black woman, which was unheard of from that part. She was married to a Somalian immigrant who refused to become naturalized in a racist country. Because of that, they were under constant surveillance from the government, because of that, and also because she just had the sheer audacity to be treated with equality.
Sienna Taylor
So, learning these things, I learned how my grandmother was in me, and I'm, she's a part of me, and all the things that I didn't realize I was doing are because someone implanted that spirit of active activism from generation to generation. So, meet my great-grandmother, Elizabeth Walker Hassan Williams. Thank you. [applause]
Kim Shine
That was Sienna Taylor. Now this Slam included a free storytelling workshop and then the Slam where community members shared stories of genealogy, tradition, identity, genetics, and memory. And Ex Fabula loves partnering with community groups to explore different aspects of the human experience, so if you're interested in more information, you can go to exfabula.org/collaborate.
Joel Dresang
Kim, that's all the time we have for this episode of Real Stories MKE, but we're generating more.
Kim Shine
I see what you did there.
Joel Dresang
Thank you. Ex Fabula has been around since 2009, and more audio stories are available at exfabula.org/radio.
Kim Shine
Yep. And more storytelling is in the works. The Ex Fabula website lists upcoming workshops and slams. So go ahead and check that out. Get involved. Share some of your stories. You can also connect with Ex Fabula on Facebook and Instagram and keep up with this podcast, Real Stories MKE, wherever you listen.
Joel Dresang
Thanks to all those who make this program possible, as well as Ex Fabula's workshops and StorySlams. Thanks to AB Korkor Foundation for Mental Health, Christine Symchych and Jim McNulty, and the Greater Milwaukee Foundation's Marvin W. Haesle Fund for the Arts. And as always, thanks to the Ex Fabula members, staff, the generous storytellers, producer Jasmine Gonzalez and audio engineer Sam Woods.
Kim Shine
That is right. And you know what? I just thought, we've got some generations here on this podcast. That's great.
Joel Dresang
Yeah!
Kim Shine
For Real Stories MKE, I'm Kim Shine.
Joel Dresang
And I'm Joel Dresang. Remember, everyone has stories worth sharing. Think about passing yours along.
