Joy Powers: This is Swing State of the Union — a podcast all about Wisconsin and why it’s so important to U.S. politics. I'm Joy Powers.
Sam Woods: And I'm Sam Woods. Thank you so much for joining us.
As voters look toward the Nov. 3 election, there are a lot of issues on their minds, including immigration. The Trump Administration is enacting a campaign of mass deportation. And more and more people have been caught up in the system.
Powers: ICE and border patrol are using soaring budgets to crack down on immigrants of all kinds. And for migrants fleeing persecution in their home countries, this crackdown has brought painful reminders of what they left.
Woods: So, in this episode, we’re looking at the shifting legal landscape for immigrants in the U.S. and the uncertain future many migrants face, as they seek to build a new life in America. We start on the near southside of Milwaukee in a former Hmong Christian Church, now home to a new group of refugees.
Milwaukee’s Rohingya refugee community
Powers: It’s a rainy Saturday in August, and the Burmese Rohingya Community Center is brimming with people. Their big day is usually Friday — when members of the community come to the center’s mosque for Jummah prayers. But today is special.
A local organization called InPower has donated hundreds of laptops to the Rohingya community. It’s a crucial piece of tech for their new lives here in the U.S. The donation was set up by Andrew Trumbull.
Andrew Trumbull: I think they really value it, and I think the kids really love it. And, you know, if some of the parents start using it and learn on it, that's a really great benefit as well — because if you want to get anything done in this country, you pretty much have to have a computer. And the Rohingya here are finding that out pretty quickly.
Powers: The center mostly serves the city’s Rohingya community. Andrew isn’t Rohingya, but he works closely with the refugees and co-founded this center.
Trumbull: The Rohingya have been called “the most persecuted people in the world.” And to kind of grasp what that means, it’s decades of rampant persecution, being the poorest people in the poorest state in a very poor country — to have everything taken away, except for your spoken language and your religion, because those are very, very difficult to take away, unless you kill a population or you kick them out entirely, which is what the Burmese government is set on doing to the Rohingya people.
A stateless people
Woods: The Rohingya are a Muslim, ethnic minority community that traces its ancestry to Burma — a country also known as Myanmar. But we’ll be referring to it as Burma, because that’s the language the Rohingya community uses. But many of the people in Milwaukee’s community have never actually been to Burma.
The group has been officially stateless, since Burma denied them citizenship under its 1982 Myanmar Nationality Law, but they were persecuted and forced into exile long before then. Burma has had civil unrest since its first military coup in 1962.
Trumbull: They've essentially been in in in a civil war of sorts for 60 or 70 years, since right after their independence from Britain.
Woods: Over the ensuing decades, the Burmese government has tried to displace the Rohingya through political and social repression, as well as violent campaigns of intimidation, arson, rape and murder.
Powers: The most recent events, starting in 2017, have been labeled a genocide by the U.S. It’s displaced a further 1.5 million Rohingya to nearby countries like Bangladesh, Malaysia, and Thailand.
They joined millions of other Rohingya who had been forced out by previous repression campaigns — many who’d been living in neighboring countries for decades.
Trumbull: You would think that a refugee camp would be a temporary thing, but in the case for Burmese, they're not. The main refugee camps that the Rohingya reside in, after fleeing from their homeland, have been around since the ‘70s.
Powers: Of those who’ve been resettled, many ended up in the United States. It’s believed that Milwaukee has the largest Rohingya community in the U.S., estimated to be about 4,000 people.
The city has become the top destination for secondary resettlement — the term for when a refugee moves from a different city or state in the same country.
One Rohingya refugee's journey
Woods: This includes people like 34-year-old Hasnah Hussin. Hasnah and her family first landed in New Hampshire, but when a job popped up at Catholic Charities in Milwaukee, she jumped at the chance.
Hasnah Hussin: Rohingya is a community where they would like to live together. No matter where you drop them off in the United States, where they landed, they will move to the big population where community are more — so that they have access to cultural food, access to cultural mosques, because right now in Milwaukee, we already have two or three Rohingya mosques.
Woods: Hasnah is Rohingya, but unlike some others in her community, she bristles at the idea of being from Burma.
Hussin: I'm someone who was born in Malaysia. I call Malaysia as my home, rather than Burma or Myanmar as my home. And when they said, “We want to go back,” I don't. I don't know what Burma looks like.
Woods: Malaysia treats Rohingya refugees as undocumented immigrants with no rights to citizenship, regardless of where they were born.
Hussin: Somewhat xenophobic was there. Somewhat racism was there. But it was not too open. Growing up in Malaysia, I also have identity crisis: why am I not Malaysian, being born in Malaysia? Why are all my Malaysian friends going to school, and I’m left alone in the house? But then, slowly, when you grow up, you realize that you are different in terms of race.
Woods: Hasnah’s family was finally resettled to New Hampshire in 2020. And it was good they were able to leave when they did.
Powers: Anti-migrant sentiment was rising in Malaysia. Hasnah was targeted because of her work as an interpreter at the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, or UNHCR, as it’s usually called.
Hussin: I got attacked a number of times. Death threat, rape threat, that's very normal for me. So just before I left, my house got burned. My mom got injured. So when we first came to United States — the next day or a day after that, I don't remember — we all got taken to the hospital for medical check.
Powers: It showed her what life would be like in their new homeland.
Hussin: They are treating my mum and my dad with so politeness. It's just, for me, it was different. It was literally a different world, because we didn't experience that much of respect or love or care back in Malaysia, in terms of medical care.
Powers: Now, for the first time in her life, Hasnah has the opportunity to get citizenship in a country. But that’s not always the case for immigrants in the U.S.
Pathways to U.S. citizenship: Refugees, asylum-seekers and Temporary Protected Status
Woods: Few native-born Americans understand the country’s complicated landscape of immigration, and all the hoops their foreign-born neighbors jump through to stay on the right side of the law. For people fleeing violence or persecution, there are a few different pathways.
Most Rohingya came to the U.S. through the nation’s refugee resettlement program. Tim Muth, a former attorney for the ACLU of Wisconsin, explains what that status means.
Tim Muth: These are people admitted because international organizations recognize them as refugees by fleeing dire situations in their countries. They are vetted by the United Nations or the International Red Cross, other organizations like that. Then [they’re] vetted by the United States government, and they have a path to a green card and ultimately to citizenship.
Powers: Then, there are asylum-seekers who apply for protection after they enter the U.S.
Muth: When somebody comes into the United States and shows that they were persecuted in their home country and have a fear of returning to their home country — they were persecuted because of their race, their religion, their political affiliation, their nationality, or because they belonged to some particular social group. So a social group might be the LGBTQ community, for example.
Woods: There’s also Temporary Protected Status, or TPS.
Muth: It's a protection that people without authorization to stay in the country have from being deported, while their country has a particular set of problems.
Powers: That includes the outbreak of civil war, genocide, or some natural disasters.
Muth: Having Temporary Protected Status — having lived in the country for 25 years without committing a crime, building a family, etc. — does not give you a path to becoming a citizen.
Woods: Whereas refugees and asylum seekers do have a potential path.
Powers: Whether you’re an asylum-seeker, refugee, or have TPS, you’re considered a legal immigrant — at least while you hold that status.
Immigration policy shifts during Trump's second term
Powers: But the situation facing immigrants of all kinds has drastically changed over the last two years.
Woods: While the first Trump Administration may have campaigned on mass deportations, Trump 2.0 is where the changes across the immigration system really accelerated.
Immigration was his signature issue on the campaign trail. In a rambling speech in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, Trump decried the “invasion” of immigrants in the state.
Donald Trump: They're coming in. They're murderers. I’ve said it so much. They're from jails. I say jails and prisons. There's a difference. One's a little stronger than the other, as you understand. They come from mental institutions and insane asylums. How many times have you heard? There's also a difference there. One's a little bit stronger than the others. And they're terrorists. They're terrorists. They're terrorists at the highest level.
Woods: Much of his ire was directed at asylum-seekers. He pointed to Nicaraguan and Venezuelan asylum-seekers in Whitewater, Wisconsin, who he claimed had destroyed the city.
Trump: Whitewater. Do you know Whitewater? Right up the road a little bit, Kamala has flooded the town with an estimated 2,000 migrants from Venezuela and Nicaragua. Very tough ones. Some very tough people in that group. I know because I get the info. Housing costs have now soared by 25% because the government's buying houses for them. Diseases are spreading like wildfire, all sorts of disease. The police say they cannot handle the surge in crime. The schools can't teach, and they're taking over the schools.
Woods: Local officials refuted Trump’s characterization of immigrants’ impact on Whitewater.
Trump's day one executive orders on immigration
Powers: Trump and others in his administration frequently conflate refugees with asylum-seekers and have falsely called them “illegal immigrants.”
These allegations against immigrants served as justification for a series of executive orders Trump signed on his first day in office.
Powers: He immediately suspended the nation’s refugee program.
Woods: Ended birthright citizenship for children born to migrants.
Powers: Created new hurdles for asylum-seekers.
Woods: And mandated stricter enforcement of all immigration laws.
Powers: Each order has led to legal battles. And some have been overturned, like ending birthright citizenship. But the Trump Administration has continued to appeal these decisions and look for new ways to enact these policies.
Immigration policy whiplash
Woods: Immigration laws are set by the federal government — specifically, Congress. But Congress hasn’t passed any sweeping immigration reforms in decades.
Instead, most of the changes to our system have come from the executive branch. That’s been true during both Democratic and Republican presidencies.
Powers: But that’s created an unstable set of orders teetering between very different approaches to immigration policy. Here’s Tim Muth.
Muth: Anything that one administration does by executive order, the next administration can undo by executive order. So we see that with the Trump administration, for example, repealing designations of Temporary Protected Status that protected, for example, Haitians from being removed back to their country that is, you know, subject to a lot of violence and other problems.
Trump's attacks on TPS, visa applications and refugee status
Powers: This leaves many immigrants, who might have been safe under one presidential administration, at risk during the next.
Woods: The Trump Administration has removed Temporary Protected Status for more than a dozen countries, including Burma.
Powers: The Administration has also paused visa applications from dozens of countries. That also includes Burma.
Woods: The refugee program has been paused indefinitely for nearly all countries including, you guessed it: Burma.
Powers: Muth says it’s part of a larger plan by the Trump Administration that started in his first term, but has rapidly picked up steam in his second term.
Muth: I mean it goes all the way back to what we called “Muslim Ban 1.0” on the first day of the first Trump administration, when it instituted a travel ban on people from several Muslim-majority countries. And it is part of an ongoing line of actions the administration has tried over the years to limit migration, especially from Muslim and third world countries.
Milwaukee Rohingya community a "beacon of hope" for broader diaspora
Powers: As the Trump Administration has cut off legal pathways to citizenship, Rohingya in Milwaukee have struggled with what that means for their community.
Many are waiting to be reunited with family members who are still living in limbo in the refugee camps.
Woods: For Americans like Andrew Trumbull at the Burmese Community Center, the fight to help this community can feel impossible and overwhelming. But he knows how important Milwaukee is to the Rohingya who live here, and those who don’t.
Trumbull: Here in Milwaukee, you see the largest grouping of powerful Rohingya that are able to earn money and send money back home to their families that are in dire straits. They're creating a new capital, because they've been, you know, kicked out of their homeland, essentially. And repatriation efforts might be decades away, if at all. Rohingya around the world look at us and look at the Milwaukee Rohingya and say, “Wow, that's like a beacon of hope.” And to see, you know, resettlement numbers get curtailed. It must be really, really tough for many Rohingya that might be waiting to be resettled, or for any hope for their people, for what the future might hold for them and their culture.
Woods: And Hasnah haw a simple message for politicians who may not understand what life looks like for refugees like her.
Hussin: If you don't want to sleep in fear because of your family’s safety, why would you let your neighbor do that?
Woods: We’ll take a short break, then explore how the escalation in immigration enforcement is threatening the safety of communities in Wisconsin and beyond.
If you’re enjoying Swing State of the Union, please check out Status Pending — another podcast from WUWM, Milwaukee's NPR. It’s about how immigration has shaped Wisconsin and how people are affected by today’s rapidly changing immigration landscape. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Voces de la Frontera director weighs in
Powers: The South Side of Milwaukee has been a hub for new immigrants since the city was founded in the mid-1800s.
Today, that includes the Burmese community, alongside a myriad of people from Latin-American countries, including Mexico, El Salvador and Venezuela.
But that diversity has put a target on these same South Side neighborhoods. Immigrant rights group Voces de la Frontera is headquartered in one of them.
Director Christine Neumann-Ortiz is no stranger to the challenges this community has faced for decades. But right now, she says things feel different.
Christine Neumann-Ortiz: I mean, we're becoming a dictatorship. If you don't have a working judicial system and you have ICE agents that can do whatever they want and violate the constitution and profile and beat up and kill people and they have immunity, then we are becoming an authoritarian state.
Powers: We’re speaking with her just after she returned to the city. She’d been visiting two women picked up by ICE in Milwaukee, who are now held at an immigration detention center in Kansas.
Neumann-Ortiz: Estenderly Marta Polanco and Reyna Garcia, both of those women were swept up in violent arrests that took place during the ICE surge here in Milwaukee at the end of June. It was over the weekend.
Summer 2026 ICE surge in Milwaukee
Woods: The Department of Homeland Security says it picked up 39 people in Milwaukee, in a spree of arrests that happened at the end of June and July. It was similar to what cities like Minneapolis and Chicago have seen, but on a smaller scale.
ICE violently arrested both women in front of their children. Estenderly is undocumented, and her family was in a car when ICE showed up.
Neumann-Ortiz: The father said, “I have rights,” because he wasn't going to open the window or roll down the window. They then broke the window and told him, “You have no rights,” and pointed a taser gun at his head and told him to put his hands on the wheel. Three other ICE agents grabbed Estenderly and threw her to the ground, where she was partially unconscious for a moment, and was then very roughly taken to the van, while she was crying out for her son and her son was crying out. They were absolutely terrorized. People in the neighborhood were terrorized.
Woods: The other woman, Reyna Garcia, was picked up along with her brother, who has already been deported.
Neumann-Ortiz: They are asylum-seekers from Nicaragua, another place that is under a dictatorship right now. And they had, similar to others, been building a good life here. And they had been able to apply for the asylum process. They were on top of their situation. They had not missed a court date. They had been on top of all communications. She had a work permit. She was complying with the legal process. She should not be in a detention center right now.
Powers: Asylum-seekers are, by definition, documented immigrants, following a legal process provided by the U.S. But federal actions have led to U.S. Immigration courts slowing down the process, putting more asylum seekers at risk of deportation.
While migrants wait on their applications to be processed, their legal protections can run out.
As Tim Muth from the ACLU explains, immigration courts have been overwhelmed by exploding caseloads.
And as the Trump Administration seeks to deport record numbers of immigrants, it’s been firing the people responsible for hearing these cases.
Muth: We have seen this administration remove a large number of immigration judges that it didn't like, and replace them with immigration judges who might take a harder line in terms of who's allowed to stay in the country and who's going to be removed.
Woods: Surging cases and fewer judges to hear them has meant the time between immigrants’ arrests and trials has gotten longer.
As they wait for their cases to be heard, most migrants are forced to sit in detention facilities like the one holding Reyna and Estenderly in Kansas. It’s become common for the administration to fly migrants to states far from where they live.
Once there, some detainees have reported facilities for withholding medical care, food, and water. Some report squalid conditions, where they’re denied showers and basic hygiene — all while they await their day in court.
Neumann-Ortiz: Why is Reyna and Estenderly in Kansas, where it's so hard for them to get closer access to legal support, family support? You know, it's tougher for them. And the whole point is to force people to give up their rights and to accept voluntary departure or eventually, you know, be deported.
Woods: People around the nation are afraid of what could happen if they get picked up — and not just undocumented immigrants.
Rohingya community feels impacts of U.S. immigration crackdown
Powers: In the basement at Catholic Charities, Rohingya translator Hasnah Hussin sits alongside Claire Reunig, the director of refugee services for the organization.
They share how, earlier this year, when ICE enforcement ramped up around the country, Rohingyas started to become concerned.
Hussin: When things happen in another state where a Karen person or Chin person got arrested, that was the limit for the Rohingya refugees, Chin refugees, here and in other states to feel panic.
Powers: Karen and Chin are other ethnic minorities from Burma.
Then, something happened closer to home that rippled through the community.
Hussin: Right after that, one of the Rohingya guys got arrested in Chicago with the same agency. Everybody got panicked, panic at a different level. Somebody calling us crying: “We haven't received our green card yet. What's going to happen now? Will they come to Milwaukee?” You can see the fear. You can see their body shivering. You can see their body’s reaction, verbal and nonverbal cues. You can see their speech, mumbling, when talking about agencies that are coming for them.
Woods: It’s a common fear for Rohingya, most of whom have been targeted and terrorized by state agencies in every country they’ve lived in — and a warning sign that their newest home may still not be safe.
Hussin: I have to be there just to listen, and then I couldn't do anything. In terms of making sure they're not getting arrested, I'm not in a position to make any promises that they will be 100% safe. But just being there, listening to them, does give them somewhat relief that people are listening.
Claire Reunig: Yeah, it's trying to normalize a lot of people's feelings and emotions that, yeah, it’s normal to be scared right now — and doing that through conversation or through stories, you know? Having short stories that talk about people who are in similar situations. So that way, we're able to weave mental health in, without talking directly about mental health. So it feels much more approachable.
Woods: Claire is known in the community simply as “Teacher.” She’s been helping Rohingya settle in the area for more than a decade, and has a popular women’s group where she works to destigmatize mental healthcare.
Rohingya refugees face new hurdles
The fear doesn’t stop with arrests. Many in the community are having difficulty making ends meet. And many are waiting longer for green card applications to simply be processed.
Powers: That slowdown has a price.
Reunig: So typically, refugees come, they have refugee status for their first year. They can apply to get their green cards at one year. And it can take a couple of years to actually get that card. And then at 5 years, if they have the card, they can apply for citizenship. Under the Big Beautiful Bill, refugees who do not have their green card in their hand are going to lose their public benefits. And so most immigrants are not allowed to apply for public benefits, but refugees have an exception.
Powers: They’re eligible for SNAP benefits, Medicaid and assistance finding work. At the same time, many Rohingya are afraid of losing their jobs, due to confusion over the law.
Reunig: There's been a lot of fear in terms of: do refugees have status to work? So HR departments that aren't familiar with working with refugees are asking people to bring in documentations that they don't actually need to work. Refugees just need an unrestricted Social Security card, so that's the same card that American citizens have, and then they need a state ID.
Powers: And the price of citizenship has become astronomical — with promises to make applications even more expensive in the near future.
Reunig: One actually new change that hasn't been officially ruled out that’s in the comment period is: the administration has now increased the fees to become a U.S. citizen by 60 to 70%. And currently, if you have a means-tested public benefit, if you're low income, you either could get a fee waiver or there was a sliding fee scale, so it cut the fee in half. They're getting rid of the fee waiver and the sliding fee scale, which means it is going to be really challenging for people to be able to afford it.
Powers: Many feel powerless.
Who has power?
Woods: But when it comes to this issue, it’s clear who does have power: Congress. Here’s Tim Muth again.
Muth: Immigration laws are exclusively a federal authority, so it's Congress that passes our immigration laws.
Woods: And of course, the Department of Justice.
Muth: Immigration courts are actually part of the Justice Department. The head of the immigration court system is the Attorney General of the United States. The Attorney General can actually take a case of an immigrant who is being removed and make the final ruling in that particular case.
Woods: And we’ve already learned what the DOJ and the Trump administration are doing.
Agreements between ICE and local law enforcement in Wisconsin
Woods: But Wisconsin municipalities have some power over how immigration enforcement is enacted in the state. One of the biggest things? 287(g) agreements.
Muth: A 287(g) agreement is essentially a partnership agreement between ICE and a local law enforcement agency. Think of it as delegating or deputizing people in the local law enforcement agency to do certain functions that otherwise could only be done by ICE.
Powers: ICE calls these agreements “force-multipliers,” essentially turning police and sheriffs into immigration officers. DHS promises $100,000 to local departments that sign up, with additional pay for salaries and benefits for officers in the program.
Muth is representing the ACLU of Wisconsin in court as it questions the legality of these agreements. A report he released on the issue found that 287(g) agreements led to more arrests of immigrants.
He says these agreements sow distrust between police and immigrant communities.
Muth: It says to the deputies out in the field, the people who work in the jail, that immigration enforcement is part of our obligations as a department. “We are engaging in this,” you know? “We have signed this agreement with with ICE.” So it sends a message, creates an atmosphere of, you know, “We're involved in this.”
Tiffany vs. Crowley on ICE and immigration
Woods: Wisconsin’s Congressional Republicans have all voted in support of Trump’s mass deportation plans. And that includes gubernatorial candidate Tom Tiffany.
Even before Trump’s re-election, Tiffany led the charge on mass deportations. Last year, he introduced a bill that would allow communities to block refugee resettlement to their area. Tiffany also introduced a bill seeking to penalize countries that refuse to accept deportees from the US. He supports 287(g) agreements and introduced legislation to take away federal funding to so-called “sanctuary cities” for immigrants.
Powers: His opponent, Milwaukee County Executive Democrat David Crowley, has spoken out against 287(g) agreements, saying he doesn’t believe local law enforcement agencies should become an extension of federal immigration enforcement. During his time as County Executive, the Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Department’s has not assisted federal immigration enforcement. He spoke out against a surge of ICE arrests in Milwaukee County, and said he was exploring legal options in response.
Other states have successfully banned 287(g) agreements. But as the federal government seeks greater power over who is allowed in the country, it’s unclear how much power a governor has to stop most ICE enforcement, as Minnesota Governor Tim Walz learned during Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis.
Citizenship, "by hook or by crook"
Woods: Back in the basement of Catholic Charities, Hasnah and Teacher Claire chat over mugs of tea and instant coffee.
As the government puts more and more hurdles in immigrants’ way, Hasnah says that the Rohingya will continue to jump over them as long as they can — because there is no other option.
Hussin: We want to be a citizen. We want to feel belong. We are done with refugee life. I am permanent resident. I don't have to worry about the arrests, so and so. But then the end goal is: I want to be a citizen. My citizenship was denied by my own country, my own land. So Rohingya, when they first come to the United States, their first goal: they want to be a citizen of that country — by hook, by crook.
Woods: By hook, or by crook.
Powers: For Hasnah and others in the Rohingya community, this is just the next step in a lifelong search for belonging. For some, this is the first time in generations that their family has been eligible to get citizenship. And they’re taking their shot.
A fan rattles in the background, as Hasnah and Teacher Claire chat about the folks in their women’s group, their fears and their hopes for the future. Some want to travel for the first time in their lives — but not Hasnah.
Hussin: If I got citizenship, one thing that Claire already know what I'm gonna do: I'm gonna take my mom to Hajj.
Powers: She wants to take her mother to Mecca. She says after that, she’s done.
Hussin: That's her end goal of her life that she said. So Hajj is the religious performance, religious travel, to Makahi Medina. So once that's done from her side, I will be a little relieved that’s all done. Now it's time to live.
Powers: She just wants to be in Milwaukee at home — for the first time in her life.
Next time on ‘Swing State'
Woods: On the next episode of Swing State of the Union, we dive into the politics of Medicaid and the economics of healthcare.
Dan Weissman: We're making a bet that the amount that we take in this year is gonna be more than we're gonna pay out in claims. And we're also taking more dollars in today that we won't have to pay out till tomorrow. And so I've got money that I can go and invest in financial markets. And so insurance companies do that.
Woods: Profits over patients. Next time on Swing State of the Union. I’m Sam Woods.
Powers: And I’m Joy Powers. Swing State of the Union is produced by WUWM, Milwaukee’s NPR — a part of the NPR Network. Please subscribe to the Swing State of the Union podcast on the NPR app, or wherever you like to listen.
